Key Post Crossed cheque : stolen & cashed : whose liability?

You should note that a letter becomes your property as soon as it is posted.
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Is a cheque ever the property of the payee?
Also, if a merchant posts goods which fail to arrive, the merchant is liable, not the consumer.

The CU have messed up here, but PTSB have messed up even more by their handling of the situation.
 
Okay - just got off the phone with the IFSRA. And now they say that, while PTSB should maybe have sent the cheque through registered post, it is for me to chase up with the CU...
When I put it to the gentleman at the IFSRA that if it were my cheque to PTSB that went missing, that they wouldn't accept responsibilty for finding it, he told me that that would be a different matter...
What a mess! At least the CU have accepted responsibility...
 
I'm an accountant in a fairly large company and I have seen this happen before - where chq's are intercepted and forged. You should ring PTSB and request a copy of the cheque. When their chq's are cashed/lodged a copy is taken and put on file in their head office - this will details if the acc payee has been forged. Seeming (as per the gardi) the details on some printed cheq's are easily lifted from the cheque and re-printed. This is how these people forge them. The person who intercepted the cheque may have changed the payee details - the CU would have known no different in that case.
Tell PTSB that you demand a copy of the cheque and a copy of their forgery policy regarding interception of cheques.
At the end of the day this is a security issue for PTSB. If you get nowhere with that tell them you will go on Joe Duffy etc. to let all their customers know the customer service with them and the risk people take with their money... etc etc etc.
 
Thanks for that Sago, but this is strictly amateur hour. The original cheque is on its way back to the CU branch where it was lodged, from their AIB branch. It seems that the "forgery" was no more elaborate than my faked signature on the back...
 
No - PTSB issued a crossed cheque made payable to me and my partner. Credit Union muppets allowed it to be cashed to a third party despite the fact that it was crossed...
 
Simp
You are in danger of losing focus on the key issue!

The PTSB owed you money, you didn't receive it, PTSB still owe you!
Those are the simple facts!

Anything and everything else that may have allegedly happened does not concern you. You had no hand act nor part in whatever may or may not have happened. Politely decline to get involved with any third party. This is between you and PTSB only. The PTSB owed you money, you didn't receive it, PTSB still owe you!

Go to the branch responsible and be reasonable (which you have been to date).

Insist that they deal with your only known facts only:
The PTSB owed you money, you didn't receive it, PTSB still owe you! Please pay up!


Follow their escalating complaints procedure.
[broken link removed]
Request any refusals in writing and copy them to the next level...

But only deal with the facts known to you firsthand:
The PTSB owed you money, you didn't receive it, PTSB still owe you! Please pay up!

Tediously boring I know, but focussed!

Best of Luck!
 
I would imagine that you could get a quick fix on this by threatening legal action to the CU. Also, were you expecting a cheque fromn PTSB or was it one they let you know should hav arrived? Why are banks sending out cheques anyway? COuld they not just credit your account? I think its good you are keeping a log of everything thats happening. But my first step would be to approach the CU who are the most in the wrong and tell them you want your money or your taking it to court. The investigation of the issue is their problem, not yours.
 
The fact that the Financial Regulator says that PTSB have done nothing wrong doesn't fill me with hope about pursuing that route! The CU are chasing this up and sound like they'll resolve it to my satisfaction. So I'm leaving the ball in their court for now...
 
tell that stupido CU to lend you the (your) money interest free until the cheque comes in (again) and then you clear it :D
 
It is worrying that the Financial Regulator is saying that banks are not responsible for cheques stolen in the post.

I recently received my new cheque book in the post from PTSB contained in a light plastic envelope. It was so obvious it was a cheque book. I'll make sure to collect them from my branch in future.
 
Me: "So if the PTSB sends me a cheque and it gets lost in the post it's my problem?"
IFSRA: "Yes."
Me: "And what about if I were sending them a cheque in the post and it got lost. Who's problem it it then?"
IFSRA: "Yours."
Me: "So if a cheque gets lost, it's never the bank's problem?"
IFSRA: "Correct."
 
simp said:
Me: "So if the PTSB sends me a cheque and it gets lost in the post it's my problem?"
IFSRA: "Yes."
Me: "And what about if I were sending them a cheque in the post and it got lost. Who's problem it it then?"
IFSRA: "Yours."
Me: "So if a cheque gets lost, it's never the bank's problem?"
IFSRA: "Correct."
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Why? And if that really is the case, do the banks not have an obligation to ensure that they send the cheque via a secure route i.e. registered post? Mind blowing, seems that IFSRA is cut from the cloth as Comreg.
 
Just got a phone call from a very helpful lady in the IFSRA. She listened in to my call yesterday "for quality control", and thought that I had been given incorrect information. My relationship is with the PTSB and not with the CU, and I should explain that to PTSB. Gave me the number of the deputy head of the PTSB customer care division and told me to call her and follow up with an email... Curiouser and curiouser...
 
Fascinating thread from a consumer rights pov, please keep us updated.
 
methinks some ppl in IFSRA must keep a watching brief on AAM.

This has indeed been fascinating.

perhaps PTSB have a closer relationship with the Soprano's than we realised

ya know Phil who does their TV ads:

PTSB Phil
 
askalot said:
seems that IFSRA is cut from the cloth as Comreg.
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Comreg is the most incompetent and useless regulator on the entire planet , mind you that chat with the IFSRA was very Comreg in the sense that it was sooooOOOOooo

"We are the regulator and can do nothing and don't want to do anything so we won't do anything and nobody can regulate us because we are the regulator "
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Them regulators may have a special how to be completely useless all the time manual ...or maybe they all have a super secret conference every year where they regale each other with glorious tales of cretinous ineptitude :(
 
rkeane said:
I would imagine that you could get a quick fix on this by threatening legal action to the CU... taking it to court. The investigation of the issue is their problem, not yours.
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I really don't see how or what you could "charge" the CU with, except stupidity or incompetence...The funds the CU paid out were not Simp's...
All they did was give some of their member's funds to someone in exchange for a worthless piece of paper... the muppets!

The PTSB allegedly issued an instruction (the cheque) to pay Simp. That didn't happen and Simp had no control over whatever did happen. The PTSB are free to investigate what did happen if they want.

They do however still owe Simp the funds that he has yet to receive.

The contact lead to the Deputy Head in the PTSB Complaints procedure, supplied by "Deep Throat" in IFSRA, would probably shortcut the real issue, Simp getting the funds due by, and from PTSB.
And if that doesn't work ask the Deputy Head to put you in personal contact with the Head of Customer Complaints.
At each stage with PTSB ask if you have completed their Complaints Handling Procedure because you need that confirmation before you proceed to arbitration with the Financial Services Ombudsman as recommended in their (PTSB's) Complaints Procedure.
 
Crugers said:
At each stage with PTSB ask if you have completed their Complaints Handling Procedure because you need that confirmation before you proceed to arbitration with the Financial Services Ombudsman as recommended in their (PTSB's) Complaints Procedure.
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That's a helpful point Crugers... Sending my 750w detailed complaint to PTSB on Monday... So I'll add a reference to that...

Not there yet, but getting there. Thanks for all your advice and encouragement, AAM members!
 
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