Key Post Crossed cheque : stolen & cashed : whose liability?

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simp

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Hi:-

PTSB sent me out a cheque on June 19th. It was crossed and made out in joint names. We did not receive it, and upon doing a little digging last week, we discovered that it had been cashed at a local Credit Union on July 31st.

The Credit Union are investigating who they cashed the cheque to - they say that they would have made a written note of the customer on the cheque, so they'll find him/her eventually... (Yes, they agree that crossed cheques are for a/c payees only, "But if we know someone we'll cash it...") The Union say that this will have to go before the board, ask me do I want to get the Gardaí involved, etc.

My question is - who is liable here? Is it my lookout, since the cheque was stolen from me (while in transit)? Is it the Credit Union's since they lodged the crossed cheque? Do I need to get the Gardaí involved?

A messy situation - and the (FTB mortgage relief refund) cheque was supposed to go toward our September holiday! I'd be glad of your input...
 
The issue is between PTSB and the credit union. You should just tell PTSB you didn't receive the cheque, tell them to reissue it, and let them pursue it. They will then probably get the Gardai involved. Ultimately, the credit union has the problem as they cashed a stolen cheque.
 
I agree with Seagull -- ultimately the Credit Union are responsible. Both may try and suggest that the theft occurred on your end, e.g. a child or relative with access to your mail. Once you're confident that's not the case, your dealings should be with PTSB to get a new cheque (or perhaps electronic transfer!). Let PTSB, the CU, and the Guards sort out the missing cheque.
 
Thanks for your answers. PTSB have asked me to chase it up with the Credit Union, and now that I've done that, the Credit Union are asking what I want them to do about it... Everyone's being as helpful as they can, but subtly trying to pass the buck - and I don't want to end up with responsibility for this mess! I just want my cheque! But yes - ultimately the buck stops with the Credit Union... Muppets! If I have anything interesting to report, I'll post further...
 
Tell PTSB to issue you YOUR cheque and you will collect it in the nearest branch this week , thats all.

The rest is between Them/guards/CU and you may be asked about it in future .
 
I think you need to be more insistent with PTSB. You never received their cheque. Their cheque was stolen -- it's not your cheque. They still owe you the money. Their dispute with the CU is a separate matter. Putting it in writing may help. I know this is all easier said than done!
 
exactly, I suspect an inside job at the CU scenario here but its up to the CU and Guards to sort that out .

If a lot of money why did the CU simply hand it out and not lodge it ??
 
I have a similar experience with PTSB, My cheque book was stolen and one cheque was written by the bloke who took it and made it out to himself for 900 cash , The idiots in PTSB cashed this cheque in my own branch ! without even asking for ID, Guards were involved, PTSB refunded the 900 and I now get all cheque books collected
 
CU are offside in two areas.............

Firstly they cashed a cheque that was crossed 'account payee only' - the crossing is an instruction from the drawer of the cheque as to how same is to be handled, i.e. the cheque is to be lodged to an account in the name(s) of the payee(s).

Secondly, having broken the first rule they then didn't establsih the identity of the fraudster (either they got no id or they took fruadulent id) - either way they are in the wrong.

The mechanics from here - PTSB return cheque to credit union with the answer 'cheque stolen'. PTSB then issue you with a duplicate/second cheque, or better still credit your accout electronically.

Credit Union report their loss to Gardai, and between them they attmpt to locate the fraudster.

Hope that helps.


Bm
 
Thanks for all your input. A brief update.

The PTSB have told me in no uncertain terms that it is not their problem. "We send out hundreds of cheques every day and this never happens." They say that it's between me and the Credit Union, as the money was stolen from me. (Is this the case, or was it stolen from them, as I had not yet received it?)

The Credit Union, meanwhile, seem quite embarrassed, and are trying to track down the payee, saying they'll revert to me on Monday. I get the feeling that they'll want me to involve the Gardaí in order for me to get the funds back from the payee.

So... Can anyone suggest a next move? Will I wait until the Credit Union revert to me and ask them to refund PTSB so they can reissue a cheque? Or will I put pressure on PTSB to sort it out with the CU themselves and reissue me a cheque in the mean time?
 
Report the cheque as stolen to the Gardai. This is theft, and there is no excuse not to report it IMHO.
 
Summary of this thread

This is a very important issue with lots of conflicting advice, so I am summarising it here to save people reading it.

There were two schools of thought
PTSB was at fault, because they owed Simp money and he did not get it.
PTSB insisted that it was not their fault as they had discharged their duty by sending out the cheque.
Others argued that the Credit Union was at fault for cashing the cheque and they should refund Simp
However, Simp has no relationship with the Credit Union.
The Financial Regulator advised Simp that PTSB was not at fault as they had discharged their duty...
But, the someone else rang back from the FR to say that this advice was wrong and that the PTSB were at fault.
In the end, PTSB accepted liability and have refunded the money to Simp.

Brendan
 
Bank Manager said:
The mechanics from here - PTSB return cheque to credit union with the answer 'cheque stolen'. PTSB then issue you with a duplicate/second cheque, or better still credit your accout electronically. Credit Union report their loss to Gardai, and between them they attmpt to locate the fraudster.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that BM - that sounds like the best route. The only problem at this stage is that PTSB seem to want to wash their hands of the thing - how do I get them to return the cheque to the CU - they seem to view the matter as closed from their end..?
 
this never happens
Click to expand...

Of course postal theft occurs. PTSB are wrong on all counts here. Put your objections to them in writing (but don't post it!).

Another angle is that this is government money that PTSB are processing on your behalf. Maybe mention that you will be contacting the Revenue Residential Interest Relief Institute Liason section (made that up -- but there is probably a section called something like that!) to expedite processing of your refund!
 
PTSB owe you money, you haven't received it. Until you receive it it's not yours. If they choose to use An Post as the medium to refund you that's up to them, but they can't hold you responsible for the payment not reaching you. It's up to them to sort out the mess.
 
Seagull said:
The issue is between PTSB and the credit union. You should just tell PTSB you didn't receive the cheque, tell them to reissue it, and let them pursue it. They will then probably get the Gardai involved. Ultimately, the credit union has the problem as they cashed a stolen cheque.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed. If they cashed a crossed check written to different names other than the names the checks were written to, its total and utter fraud and should have been obvious. If a check is crossed it can only be lodged to the account of the payee. If an institution doesn't take account of that and cashes it then tis 100% liable for the loss.

PTSB will probably get you to sign a form saying that the check never received. I would also go to the Gardai myself and report it, just in case they don't. Sounds disturbingly like an insider job at the credit union though, even 10 years ago it was pretty much impossible to cash a crossed check in any bank, even with id.
 
If I were you, I'd call IFSRA straight away & ask them to give you advice or intervene on your behalf.
 
Thanks for all your comments. PTSB are being really sticky about it, and saying that they have discharged their duty in posting the cheque, and that they cannot be held liable for the CU wrongly cashing it. So I'll draft a formal letter, putting it to them that they need to reissue a cheque and take it up themselves with the CU / Gardaí. And then see what they say...
And in the mean time, the CU might feel guilty, give me the cash, and take care of it themselves...
 
moneyhoney said:
If I were you, I'd call IFSRA straight away & ask them to give you advice or intervene on your behalf.
Click to expand...

Yes - I phoned the IFSRA yesterday and they weren't much use - they just said that it was wrong of the CU - and said that if I did not "receive satisfaction" I should write to the Credit Union Ombudsman and then to the Financial Ombudsman...
 
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