Class S contributions. No Pension. Any come-back?

ClickityClic

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For 30 years I was self-employed and paid Class S contributions. I also paid my PRSI, health levy and income tax. I paid my accountant to deal with my finances and truted him completely. However, he didn't inform me, nor I didn't ask, about eventual pensions etc. Of course, when I applied for the pension, I got a very rude awakening. Have I got anywhere to go for help or for consideration? Is there anything I can do to get any kind of pension?
 
Class S PRSI fully entitles you to a state contributory pension so this doesn't make sense.
 
Thanks for that. The Pension office said that I "did not meet the minimum earnings required to be awarded the class S cons." I issued cheques for PRSI, PAYE, Health levies, and anything else I was asked for. How could all this have happened and still I'm left without?
 
The system is extremely complicated. However I was under the impression that five years of PRSI payments were enough to secure a contributory pension. However there are other conditions including a minimum average number of contributions.

The sentence "did not meet the minimum earnings required" does not make any sense to me; your entitlement is not based on how much you earned in the past but on the number and distribution of your contributions. You need to find out the exact reason for their rejection of your claim - "did not meet the minimum earnings required" is both vague and inaccurate. Ask for the precise condition you failed to meet and insist that they point you to the exact place in their published documentation where this condition is described.
 
Note that class "S" does not qualify for transitonal pension 65 to 66 yrs of age
 
I was flatly turned down for the transitional pension, but thought that I would qualify for the state. I paid PRSI at the SO rate from '89 to '97, but they only took into consideration the payments which I made when I was otherwise employed, over a period of three years. Darag, I will do as you suggest and post again. There was a seminar a couple of months ago about welfare entitlements, and the officer who gave it, also gave this advise, "Never take NO for an answer". Straight from the horse's mouth!
 
It seems very odd that your class S contributions were not included in your pension record. Have you got a record (year on year) of all PRSI payments made by you in both classes.
If not request one from the Records Section, Gandon House, Amiens St, Dublin 1
 
could it be that you do not have the required minimum paid contributions at FULL rate PRSI, other than the class S? See this (I.ve bolded the relevant words):

"Number of paid contributions

If you reached pension age before April 6 2002, you must have 156 qualifying paid contributions (a total of 3 years but they do not have to be consecutive). This means that you must have actually paid full-rate contributions (that is, full stamp prior to 1979 and Class A,E,F,G,H,N and S since then.)
If you reach pension age on or after 6th April 2002, you will need to have 260 paid contributions (effectively 5 years contributions but they need not be consecutive). However, if you were a voluntary contributor on or before April 6 1997, you need only have 156 paid contributions if you have a yearly average of at least 20 contributions.
If you reach pension age on or after April 6 2012, you will need to have 520 paid contributions (10 years paid contributions). In this case, not more than 260 of the 520 contributions may be voluntary contributions. However, if you were a voluntary contributor on or before April 6 1997 and you have a yearly average of 10 contributions, you may meet the requirement if you have a total of 520 contributions, but only 156 need to be compulsory paid contributions."
 
Thanks to everyone. I have a letter from my accountant confirming that I paid PRSI at the SO rate from 1989 to 1998. I also have a copy of my Contribution History which shows only the very first three years of my employment. (not self-employed).
Nothing about the years '89 to'98. What do I no next? It would seem that I'm entitled to the pension.
 
Thanks everybody. I have a copy of my Contribution History which only shows two years while I was employed. Based on these payments, I'm entitled €104.70, but have been advised by the Dept. to remain on my husband's pension as a Qualified Adult, as his pension would be greater than mine. We've both been self-employed and on the SO stamp, so I presume that his pension is based on his years employment with a state body prior to our mutual self-employment. I've been self-employed since 1970 and have paid PRSI at the SO rate from 1989/90 to 1997/98. There is no record of these payments on the History.
 
Would I be a voluntary contributor, as I was self-employed? I have a Contributions History and it show zero for all the years from 1962/63 to 2007 even thought I paid the PRSI at the SO rate from 1989 to 1998.
 
I think you need to be talking to SW about this gap. As another poster said, its a complicated areas due to changes in the qualifying conditions over the years. The fiorst sterp would be to make sure SW have recorded all contributions due, be them compulsory, voluntary or self-employed.
 
Were you working as an employee of your husbands business or did have seperate self-employed status
 
It's easy said now, but it is a good idea to keep a record for each year, in 30 years time when you are ready to claim your memory will fail you.
They even had my PRSI wrong for 2007, when I changed employers, I was 18 contributions shorts because they only took account of one employer.
 
Hi ClicketyClick,

With regard to your class S from 1989 to 1998, can you say what your earnings from self employment were for each year. If your earnings were below a certain level then there was no PRSI liability.

I am unsure as to what the level actually was/is. It is quite low I think. Perhaps in the region of €3,500-00pa.

It may be that the self employment income you returned was so low that PRSI was not payable
 
On reflection, I think the level is lower than €3500-00pa. Perhaps more like €2,000-00pa.
 
Could it be that as a relative of a self employed person you were excluded from paying class S. See welfare.ie and perhaps your accountant was unaware of this.
Just a thought
 
The basis of your problem seems to be that you "have paid PRSI at the SO rate from 1989/90 to 1997/98. There is no record of these payments on the History." This is the big question mark for me.

First of all you need to confirm that you were actually paying PRSI during this period - your company accounts should be the first place to look (or your accountant during the period).

If it turns out that no PRSI was actually paid for you in the period (whether due to the threshold as others are suggesting or for some other reason), then I think you are probably out of luck. I'd be surprised if 2 years of PRSI contributions would be enough to secure you a full contributory pension.

On the other hand, if you can confirm that contributions WERE made during the period, then you need to find out why the dept. has no record of these contributions. Whoever was dealing with revenue on behalf of the company during the missing period probably needs to be consulted. If the dept. corrects its records and credits you with another 8/9 years of contributions, then I'm sure you'll get your entitlement.
 
I can now say that for the years in question if your self employment income was below 2,500 Irish pounds per annum then you had no PRSI liability and any PRSI contributions you paid to the Collector General were regarded by Social Welfare as not valid.

If this is what has happened in your case (and this would appear to be the case as SW say you did not meet "the minimum earnings" required) you should contact SW about a refund of the PRSI that you paid.
 
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