Civil Service Pensions Advice re variable pension allowances Please

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november16

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Hello can someone who has civil public service Pensions experience please advise.

I have been in receipt of an acting/higher duty allowance whilst on secondment for 26 years.

This allowance is not superannuated and is 21,000. My pension is approx 14,000 on the substantive post age 62 ex Fas.

Can anyone explain variable pensionable allowance or recommend somewhere I can get expert advice re deciphering a particular civil service circular re variable pensionable allowances
I don't work in the Civil Service and my secondment position has been terminated.

Pensions advice is not available I have tried to access that information from various sources to no avail.
Any advice very much appreciated
 
november16 said:
This allowance is not superannuated and is 21,000.
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Why is the allowance not superannuated - particularly if you have been receiving it for 26 years? Were you in receipt of this allowance up until your retirement? Or are you still in receipt of it if you remain working?

As far as I know, variable pension allowance just refers to a situation where the amount of an allowance may vary from year to year for whatever reason. For the purpose of calculating pension entitlements, the amount of this allowance is calculated as the average of the 3 best consecutive years in the final 10 years of service. But this would only come into consideration if the allowance is pensionable in the first place.
 
Thanks Early Riser it seems to be some sort of an anamoly. DPER are saying that on secondment that the allowance is not pensioned. it was set up by a government department Enterprise Trade and empmoyment under a semi state, when that organisation disbanded, a civil service dept took over and the unfunding continued.
 
I note that Mick Barry TD asked a number of Ministers a PQ about this matter last month, but didn't get very far!

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The reply he got from Heather Humphreys includes the following: - "The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform have advised that staff on secondment remain pensionable in their substantive grade." (which to me suggests that the acting up allowance isn't pensionable).

However, the reply from Eamon Ryan includes the following: ".... The higher duty/acting allowance is pensionable...... "

So if Ryan's Department is paying it, then, according to DPER, they shouldn't be!
 
The general rule appears to be that only the original "substantive" salary is pensionable - not allowances which may be paid by the seconded body. However, it also appears that there are exceptions to this rule, either by individual arrangement or by general sector agreements. For example, it seems teachers on secondment to the Dept of Ed to support national initiatives have an arrangement re superannuation for allowances.

The general rule as set out in Circular P18/012/08 is rather woolly:

In general, unless covered by an appropriately approved specific agreement to the contrary, for an allowance to be pensionable, it should:

(i) be the subject of an appropriately approved central or local written management-staff agreement which specifies that the allowance is pensionable or specifies that the allowance is in the nature of pay;

(ii) meet the standard conditions governing the pensionability of allowances, namely that the allowance is in respect of specified duties which are permanent or quasi-permanent and are continuous or regular;

(iii) not be a payment for work of a casual or temporary nature; and

(iv) not be a payment for or in lieu of overtime, travel, subsistence or other expenses.

The criteria at (i) to (iv) above are indicative only and are not exhaustive. They are for guidance purposes and are not intended to change existing agreements. If a Department has any doubts about the pensionability of a Civil Service allowance, they should consult the Department of Finance. If another public service body has any doubts about the pensionability of an allowance, they should consult the relevant parent Department.
 
Early Riser said:
The general rule appears to be that only the original "substantive" salary is pensionable - not allowances which may be paid by the seconded body. However, it also appears that there are exceptions to this rule, either by individual arrangement or by general sector agreements. For example, it seems teachers on secondment to the Dept of Ed to support national initiatives have an arrangement re superannuation for allowances.

The general rule as set out in Circular P18/012/08 is rather woolly:

In general, unless covered by an appropriately approved specific agreement to the contrary, for an allowance to be pensionable, it should:

(i) be the subject of an appropriately approved central or local written management-staff agreement which specifies that the allowance is pensionable or specifies that the allowance is in the nature of pay;

(ii) meet the standard conditions governing the pensionability of allowances, namely that the allowance is in respect of specified duties which are permanent or quasi-permanent and are continuous or regular;

(iii) not be a payment for work of a casual or temporary nature; and

(iv) not be a payment for or in lieu of overtime, travel, subsistence or other expenses.

The criteria at (i) to (iv) above are indicative only and are not exhaustive. They are for guidance purposes and are not intended to change existing agreements. If a Department has any doubts about the pensionability of a Civil Service allowance, they should consult the Department of Finance. If another public service body has any doubts about the pensionability of an allowance, they should consult the relevant parent Department.
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Thanks very much Early Riser. As Wooly as a marino. I believe there could be hundreds of people in receipt of these(Temporary) unpensioned allowances for years which saves the organisations involved substantial monies. Secondment is supposed to be temporary, acting/higher duty allowances are supposed to be temporary. Dept Ed, transport and ETB appear to pension the allowance and this is paid by the host as I understand it. Seems an anamoly which needs to be resolved one way or the other.
 
Groucho said:
I note that Mick Barry TD asked a number of Ministers a PQ about this matter last month, but didn't get very far!

www.oireachtas.ie

Search the Houses of the Oireachtas website

Search the Houses of the Oireachtas website
www.oireachtas.ie

The reply he got from Heather Humphreys includes the following: - "The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform have advised that staff on secondment remain pensionable in their substantive grade." (which to me suggests that the acting up allowance isn't pensionable).

However, the reply from Eamon Ryan includes the following: ".... The higher duty/acting allowance is pensionable...... "

So if Ryan's Department is paying it, then, according to DPER, they shouldn't be!
Click to expand...
Thanks very much Groucho seems there are different rules in different sectors. My understanding is that both higher duties and secondment should be temporary and therefore that may be why they were left unpensioned, But that 100 s are left in limbo when it becomes continuous, permanent increases significantly over the years and becomes core pay and is a large % of salary. It is taxable and the pension levy had been deducted from it for ten years from 2009 to 2019 yet did not lead to a pension. The A.S.C deduction from 2019 appears to just be taken from pensionable salary.
 
november16 said:
Thanks very much Groucho seems there are different rules in different sectors. My understanding is that both higher duties and secondment should be temporary and therefore that may be why they were left unpensioned, But that 100 s are left in limbo when it becomes continuous, permanent increases significantly over the years and becomes core pay and is a large % of salary. It is taxable and the pension levy had been deducted from it for ten years from 2009 to 2019 yet did not lead to a pension. The A.S.C deduction from 2019 appears to just be taken from pensionable salary.
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Have you a union that could help? Or are they, like too many PS unions, only interested in collecting members' subs?
 
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