Can Solicitor visit elderly person in nursing home when no one present?

A

amc123

Registered User
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Hi,

Just in brief.

The situation is an elderly parent in a nursing home with one sibling living in the family home. There is a documented history of elderly abuse from that sibling hence major reason for elderly parent to be safely in care home.

This sibling is very concerned about the position re the will and the family home and has made attempts to exert pressure to change will. The options of obtaining some form of income from the family home will be required at some stage to fund care.

Now the question... two solicitors appeared at the nursing home and were left in to visit the elderly relative. There was no one else present. The parent is confused but did say they asked if there was a desire to change the will. It is assumed that the sibling in the home arranged this visit.

My question is... would this be an ethical situation? Should there have been consultation with other siblings or medical carers in advance of such a visit ?

Should there have been somebody present with the elderly parent during the visit ? Should they have attempted to find out if the parent actually wanted the visit?

Maybe it is all OK but at the very least two solicitors visiting an elderly person in a home seems a bit intimidating.

Thanks in advance for any opinions
 
amc123 said:
. Should there have been consulation with other siblings or medical carers in advance of such a visit ?
Click to expand...

Why would they need to be consulted, one is entitled to have a solicitor visit if one wants to make or change a will.

Is the elderly person suffering from any mental illness?
 
From reading the OP, it seems that the elderly person did not request the presence of the solicitor. If it was my parent, I would be unhappy with the situation. They are free to make whatever decisions they want but should not be coerced into anything.
 
There is quite clearly sooooooooooooooooooooo much going on here in the background.

What are the chances of two, not just one, but two, solicitors rocking up to Ye Olde Nursing Home ( I imagine they had cloaks and daggers also!) and sneaking in to persuade someone to change their will.

Here is the solution. Have the elderly person made a Ward of Court. End of story.

mf
 
This is a tricky and sensitive issue.

Who is looking after the interests of the parent, i.e paying the bills etc.?That person should have a relationship with the nursing home and be able to assess or have assessed the parent's capacity to carry out legal actions such as changing a will etc.

A word with the nursing home on unsupervised visits by solicitors might be appropriate.
 
Hi the parent says they weren't asked to sign anything but is of the age and generation that has a slight fear of officialdom so was disturbed by the visit. A different sibling is managing all finances paying bills etc but dont feel there is a case for making the parent a ward as the parent is mentally competant. The issue is that the parent is just coming out of a situation where they were mentally and physically abused by the sibling living in the home and this abuse has been documented through the courts but that is a whole other saga of many years of blood sweat and tears to get the parent out of the abusive situation and into the safety of a nursing home. There is no question but that the parent should have the ability to make a will leaving everything to the dogs and cats if so desired the other siblings want nothing other than to pay the element of the nursing home that needs to be paid and then be secure in the knowledge that the parent is safe and secure in the nursing home, however the issue is that the parent is still influenced by years of being controlled by the sibling and that sibling's only concern now is that the family home will be used to cover the nursing home. They are still sending all household bills to the parent for payment and the parent is still having them paid but the other siblings were following the parents wishes so as not to upset the parent. it is a whole mess but I suppose I am questioning the ethics and professionalism of the solicitors in the situation. They are well aware of the history and have raised concerns about inappropriate pressure being put on the parent by the particular sibling in the past. There has been a suggestion (through a source connected with the firm off the record) that the abusive sibling has been contacting then morning noon and night saying that the parent wants to change their will so while they are aware of the situation maybe they made the visit in order to make a judgement call as to whether the parent did want to do this or not. Honestly it just seemed inappropriate to me.
 
In my situation there is one sibling who has complete control over my father. This person has made my father totally dependent on her. We have discovered that she is also trying to get him to change his will and to leave money to the various grandchildren. This has been done without consultation to the other beneficiaries of my fathers will. Her husband is named as my father's executor also. I cannot believe that he is not aware of this attempt by his wife to change my father's will.
A person does not have to be abusive to be manipulative.
 
This is a very difficult situation, given the influence of the sibling living in the parent's house. Unfortunately the parent has been abused so much that she/he is afraid of the consequences of kicking the sibling out of the house. It would be great to sell the house, and throw that degenerate sibling out, but even 100k might fund only 2 years of care.

The solicitors went to parent on instruction from sibling. They probably realised quickly that parent had no interest in meeting them or changing will. I would complain to the solicitors or law society if they visited again as their first visit was conclusive as to parent's wishes.
 
Yes I guess so luckily the parent is in the home on the fair deal scheme so has to pay 5% of the value of their assets for three years and 80% pension. There is enough cash for about a year of this and then the idea was to sell the house and provide another smaller property for the sibling or alternatively have the sibling pay rent but neither situation will happen easily. Sometimes when you think something is wrong you want someone to agree it is wrong and you are not going mad yourself. Anyway it might be worth the other siblings expressing concern to the firm at the manner in which it was done. Thanks for the opinions.
 
Sorry now for posting again but situation has become stranger. Home has security pin code access which is given to family to have access when they wish. Home now say that the solicitors arrived at the home used the pin codes and entered the building unannounced. They knew their way to the room and proceeded to the room without consulting any of the medical staff. They were found there half an hour later by a staff member who considered the parent to be very distressed about the visit so asked who they were. They refused to tell the staff member who they were and and left immediately leaving the parent in a very distressed state. This is so upsetting for the rest of the family and the home are also unhappy. It seems that the sibling gave them the access information as it is more than certain that the parent neither knows this information or has the capacity to give such information. Surely this is completely unprofessional and unethical. The firm have no professional relationship with the sibling so I cannot see what they have to gain by acting like this. Is there a code of ethics or should we contact the law society to find out if this behaviour is acceptable ?
 
Would it not be best to regularize this situation, sit down and talk to the parent. Work out what she wishes to do with his/her assets and then have another solicitor with their doctor, who the parent might be familiar with and make and write a new will. Make sure it is dated. So basically the greed of others and the other solicitors can be over-ruled. This could put an end to the dishonesty and abuse of the other parties.
 
That's a good idea Mercman thanks. Other family not thinking straight today. I guess the real upset is that the abusive sibling can find a way to continue the abuse when they thought they had the parent removed from it. There will have to be some movement on the house to fund the fair deal payment but all other family are completely emotionally drained from the years and I am talking up to ten years that it has taken to find the present solution that it was being left alone at the moment while they tried to recover but it seems like many things in life the problem isn't gone away it has just evolved to new measures of abuse. Family are so angry about the solicitors conduct not thinking rationally! Tkx again.
 
I can understand that you are all angry and emotionally drained.

There are two completely separate issues here.

1) Ensure that your parent has access to unbiased legal advice and that they feel that they made their will without pressure.
If it is possible to prove who gave them the nursing home access code then
a new code should be issued and whoever handed it out in contravention of the
rules should not be given the new one,

2) Deal with the behaviour of the solicitors. I dont know the rules of the Law Society but the scenario that you have outlined sounds unethical and if I were you, I would make a complaint the the Law society.

Do you know who paid the solicitors for the visit.
Either

1) someone paid them to visit an elderly person in a nursing home, and enabled them to enter the room in a way that is only applicable to family members, and ask them about changing their will or

2) Someone enabled them and encouraged them to make this visit in the expectation of getting the elderly person to pay them to make out a will.


Either of these scenarios sounds very wrong. I would persue it if i were you.

Good luck and i hope your parent is fine,
 
huskerdu said:
Either of these scenarios sounds very wrong. I would pursue it if I were you.
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Good points made huskerdu. But OP talk to the other normal family members and act as soon as possible. The last thing you want is a challenge concerning compos mantis. A decent GP should assist you in these grounds and even a half decent solicitor will assist.

The law concerning a will is that the last dated will of a deceased person is the one that is valid. Nothing else.
 
It appears that the abusive sibling is living in the family home. She is fearful that her home is going to be taken away from her and is probably trying to protect herself. Does she have a guarantee that another house will be provided for her out of the proceeds of the sale of the main house or is it a case that the other siblings are now looking for their inheritance up front?
If the house is sold and there is a lump of money in the account and and no house does the fairdeal scheme still work?
 
Honestly rest of family wants nothing. Sibling doesn't listen and has been asked to get a legal representative so that the situation can be explained. There really is totally no interest in the will whatsoever they would be ok if property left to sibling. All well aware sibling will need a home which is why they didn't take the option to have the fair deal payment come out of proceeds of sale after death and instead are trying to pay. Only human though and unwilling to let the abusive sibling away with making no contribution when they have never paid their own way in life and in fact has some of the parents funds under their control but parent can't or won't remember what happened to the funds. Solicitors firm stating they did nothing wrong. Don't imagine any solicitor will admit they were wrong though. Family is most certainly not going to pay for their time so I'd say they'll have fun trying to get from sibling! It's worth a letter to law society anyway although only for the therapy value to the family as I doubt it will achieve anything.
 
Yes fair deal scheme means 5% assets payable annually. Cap of three yrs on including PPR for the assessment so I imagine if PPR was sold the 5% would continue to be payable.
 
mf1 said:
There is quite clearly sooooooooooooooooooooo much going on here in the background.

What are the chances of two, not just one, but two, solicitors rocking up to Ye Olde Nursing Home ( I imagine they had cloaks and daggers also!) and sneaking in to persuade someone to change their will.

Here is the solution. Have the elderly person made a Ward of Court. End of story.

mf
Click to expand...

Yes I know it sounds bizarre but it happened there were two and they did sneak in using codes they had no right to have. It seems so bizarre to me which is why I am asking about the ethics and professional guidelines pertaining to the situation. No cloaks and daggers tho or at least I haven't been told but maybe the CCTV should be checked again!!!
Honestly don't wish to go down ward of court etc. After what the parent has suffered priority is to build up health and give back their dignity and feel that going down this road would strip them of their dignity again. Reason for post is to question solicitors actions no interest in what happens with will other siblings would be quite happy to let abusive sibling have house regardless of what's in will - siblings don't know- just don't want any dealings with the individual. Annoyed that the bullying of parent can continue when it was thought that parent was removed from situation.
 
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