Brexit 2017

[Wahaay]

You wrote:

" Any comment on the fact that this country has far more non nationals per capita than the U.K. Despite your claims to the contrary ? "

I did not claim that.

However Ireland is not immune from some of the problems immigrants face in the UK.

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/reports-of-racist-incidents-in-ireland-are-on-the-rise-1.2750542

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Wahaay I am still not sure that you are not a troll. If you are you have achieved a measure of success in stretching this out to 7 pages. Your refusal to either withdraw your OP whopper or to explain why you included it is further colloboratory evidence of trollatoriness. As the creator of this thread you have a much higher responsibility than mere contributors like myself. You are in honour bound to correct any gross misrepresentations in your OP and I know Brits are (wo)men of honour.

 

[Firefly]

But as you know sterling hasn't fallen consistently since Brexit.It has recovered some ground then fallen again.Much of this is volatility based on political events.

Would you care to back up this assertion please and provide examples of these political events you think were responsible for the fall in STG?



I offer the following articles on why the beloved Pound has weakened:

Fears of the consequences of a hard Brexit have sent the pound to a fresh 31-year-low against the dollar, excluding last October’s flash crash.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...xchange-theresa-may-hard-brexit-a7528866.html

The expected triggering of Article 50 in the first quarter of 2017 is predicted to push down the value of sterling against a basket of major currencies, dragging it to a 32-year low against the dollar.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...k-pound-article-50-marks-sterlings-final-dip/

Sterling slid to a three-year low against the euro on Monday after prime minister Theresa May set a March deadline for the formal departure process from the EU to begin
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...-to-new-three-year-low-against-euro-1.2814584

Global bank HSBC has reiterated it expects sterling euro parity by the end of next year in a downbeat analysis, as the pound tipped above the 90 pence mark yesterday.


British pound drops sharply after Theresa May announces UK will trigger EU exit in March, suggesting immigration not single market is the priority
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/03/uk-stocks-rally-as-brexit-fears-fade

Edit: Just to add: of course a weaker currency has short term benefits such as helping with exports but imports become more expensive. If a weaker Pound was government policy then fair enough, but from what I see it was the market which decided the Pound was not as valuable and therefore its price dropped. Funny how cheap it is to buy Christmas decorations this time of year..

Firefly.

 

[Purple]

Really ?
You don't think Rolls Royce was developed and manufactured by British people ?
You need to do a bit more Googling old sport.

The engine is designed and built in Germany. The drive train is from a 7-Series BMW and the entire engineering spec was done in Germany. The body shape and spec was done in England by a German-English design team. The production line was also designed by Germans.
As I said the British, well English and Scottish, have a fantastic tradition and heritage in engineering and manufacturing. It is a tragedy that you have lost so much of it. You are still world class in Aerospace (the UK is the second biggest aerospace manufacturer in the world) but the Unions from the late 50's to the mid 80's destroyed most of it. Thatcher didn't help either. Even now that remains of your steel industry is being lost.

 

[Wahaay]

Currencies will always fluctuate - that's what happens in a market place.
Sterling is currently at the rate the IMF suggested it should be at just before the Referendum.
It may go lower or it may go higher depending on external political factors as could any currency - another crisis in Greece,Le Pen being elected in France,the Far Right doing well in The Netherlands could all affect the euro substantially.
But fortunately brave politicians tend not to make policy based on predictions of what might happen at some stage in the future to currencies.
In the UK's case May is reacting to the democratic wish of the British people - sadly not something the Irish government is able to do,as evidenced by the second Lisbon Treaty vote.
On a purely practical point of view as Britain looks towards global trade expansion with new trade deals particularly in emerging markets a weaker pound is just what it needs.

 

[Purple]

Who knows why British people emigrate here but I know of no British people who moved to Ireland because they couldn't find employment in the UK.

Let's not get into a discussion about why that was the case. I'm not a fan of the whole "800 years of oppression" BS or the simplistic anti-English historical narrative which such discussions inevitably descend into but there are legitimate historical reasons why Irish people (and Ireland as a whole) were so poor that they needed to immigrate and England had a large, but by no means exclusive, part to play in it.

 

[Wahaay]

The engine is designed and built in Germany. The drive train is from a 7-Series BMW and the entire engineering spec was done in Germany. The body shape and spec was done in England by a German-English design team. The production line was also designed by Germans.
As I said the British, well English and Scottish, have a fantastic tradition and heritage in engineering and manufacturing. It is a tragedy that you have lost so much of it. You are still world class in Aerospace (the UK is the second biggest aerospace manufacturer in the world) but the Unions from the late 50's to the mid 80's destroyed most of it. Thatcher didn't help either. Even now that remains of your steel industry is being lost.

The Airbus is built at 16 sites across four countries so I don't quite see your point.
Rolls-Royce still employs British workers to assemble the vehicles and parts for it are made by a myriad of other British companies.
Guinness is British-owned but made in Ireland - so what ? Does it make it any less of an iconic Irish brand ?
You're allowing parochialism to obscure the fact that industry is global these days..

 

[Wahaay]

Let's not get into a discussion about why that was the case. I'm not a fan of the whole "800 years of oppression" BS or the simplistic anti-English historical narrative which such discussions inevitably descend into but there are legitimate historical reasons why Irish people (and Ireland as a whole) were so poor that they needed to immigrate and England had a large, but by no means exclusive, part to play in it.

Ireland became a Republic in 1949. You're not seriously telling me a single person has moved to the UK since then as a result of British policies ?
People emigrate from Ireland because of the ineptitude of the politicians elected to run this country.

 

[Purple]

The Airbus is built at 16 sites across four countries so I don't quite see your point.
Rolls-Royce still employs British workers to assemble the vehicles and parts for it are made by a myriad of other British companies.
Guinness is British-owned but made in Ireland - so what ? Does it make it any less of an iconic Irish brand ?
You're allowing parochialism to obscure the fact that industry is global these days..

That's ironic.
Industry is indeed global these days. That's why leaving the single market is not a good thing. Airbus is a good example; lots of high paid and highly skilled jobs, most of the manufacture done in the UK but the company is headquartered in France and final assembly also takes place there. I work in the sector (manufacturing) and the Primes (Thales, Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier) and Trier 1 and Tier 2 suppliers in the UK are fearful of what the future holds for them. Their Industry Group came out strongly in favour of remaining in the EU.

 

[Purple]

Ireland became a Republic in 1949. You're not seriously telling me a single person has moved to the UK since then as a result of British policies ?
People emigrate from Ireland because of the ineptitude of the politicians elected to run this country.

I don't know where to begin with that one. If your understanding of Irish history really is that limited then there's no point in discussing it. I suspect you know better but are choosing to be argumentative in which case there's also no point in discussing it.

 

[Wahaay]

That's ironic.
Industry is indeed global these days. That's why leaving the single market is not a good thing. Airbus is a good example; lots of high paid and highly skilled jobs, most of the manufacture done in the UK but the company is headquartered in France and final assembly also takes place there. I work in the sector (manufacturing) and the Primes (Thales, Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier) and Trier 1 and Tier 2 suppliers in the UK are fearful of what the future holds for them. Their Industry Group came out strongly in favour of remaining in the EU.

Well that's what the next two years of negotiations will all be about.
But the idea that the EU holds all the aces and the UK is plunging into an abyss that will also swallow up British industry is nonsense.
It is within the interests of many European businesses with valuable UK markets that a reasonable deal which suits both sides is secured.
Fortunately people like the clown Druncker appear to have been sidelined and more sensible voices are being heard.
But who knows ? We shall see.

 

[Wahaay]

I don't know where to begin with that one. If your understanding of Irish history really is that limited then there's no point in discussing it. I suspect you know better but are choosing to be argumentative in which case there's also no point in discussing it.

There came a point when Ireland had to stop playing the victim card and that was a very long time ago.
We all partied.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

What do you think of this Nige?

Ok Ray Houghton was Scottish and Jack Charlton was undoubtedly English.

Any chance of dropping "combined" from OP? Go on, I'll drop the bone if you do, promise

 

[Wahaay]

I don't know where to begin with that one. If your understanding of Irish history really is that limited then there's no point in discussing it. I suspect you know better but are choosing to be argumentative in which case there's also no point in discussing it.

What do we think of the Irish government's response to Brexit thus far ? Kenny seems strangely quiet on such a major decision that will inevitably affect Ireland unless there are some Machiavellian discussions going on behind doors that we don't know about.
I think this represents a perfect opportunity for Ireland as well - even for something like renegotiating the terms of the bailout deal in return for supporting the rest of Europe.
I know Ireland often likes to plead it's a special case but in this case,with the Northern Ireland peace process at a difficult point,I think it could very well argue that.
Is there even a special Brexit committee in the government ?

 

[Firefly]

Currencies will always fluctuate - that's what happens in a market place.
Sterling is currently at the rate the IMF suggested it should be at just before the Referendum.

With respect that's a cop out. The value of sterling has fallen significantly as a direct result of the Brexit result and you know this. Do you really think the market hangs on every word from the IMF? Can you provide other examples of where the IMF have indicated what a currency should be and the market reacted in a similiar way?

 

[Dan Murray]

Morning dog,

Ok Ray Houghton was Scottish and Jack Charlton was undoubtedly English.

Some very serious questions arise - absolutely critical to the substantive debate here, our future, the future of Europe and indeed, the future of the entire planet.

Have Ray and Jack changed their nationality?
At what point would one move from being Scottish to undoubtedly Scottish?
When Jack came to work here, would he at that point have been deemed to be no longer English - i.e. elsewhere in this thread, people like Jack were described, without challenge, as non-nationals?

Paddywhack

 

[Wahaay]

With respect that's a cop out. The value of sterling has fallen significantly as a direct result of the Brexit result and you know this. Do you really think the market hangs on every word from the IMF? Can you provide other examples of where the IMF have indicated what a currency should be and the market reacted in a similiar way?

But I didn't say the market had reacted to what Christine Lagard said.Merely that sterling was now at levels the IMF said it should be at before the referendum.
Trying to predict markets is difficult - that's why if you're successful you make a lot of money.
Take this morning for example.Sterling is up one cent against the dollar largely on UK inflation figures out which show air fares and food prices have pushed up inflation to a 30-month high. And what caused that ? The fall in the value of the pound.
So a falling pound has actually seen sterling rise today. Crazy,eh ?
Now increased inflation is not necessarily a bad thing.It could mean a rise in interest rates which is good news for savers but bad news for people with a mortgage.
The lesson to learn is that markets have a life of their own and trying to formulate government policy based on what you think might happen in two year's time is an impossible task.

 

[Purple]

Well that's what the next two years of negotiations will all be about.
But the idea that the EU holds all the aces and the UK is plunging into an abyss that will also swallow up British industry is nonsense.

I agree.

It is within the interests of many European businesses with valuable UK markets that a reasonable deal which suits both sides is secured.

I agree there as well. The jingoistic rhetoric from the Brexiteers needs to tones down though.

But who knows ? We shall see.

That's the thing; nobody knows.

 

[Purple]

What do we think of the Irish government's response to Brexit thus far ? Kenny seems strangely quiet on such a major decision that will inevitably affect Ireland unless there are some Machiavellian discussions going on behind doors that we don't know about.
I think this represents a perfect opportunity for Ireland as well - even for something like renegotiating the terms of the bailout deal in return for supporting the rest of Europe.
I know Ireland often likes to plead it's a special case but in this case,with the Northern Ireland peace process at a difficult point,I think it could very well argue that.
Is there even a special Brexit committee in the government ?

The Irish government has shown its usual ineptitude. I'm sure that will continue. They are in good company though as Ms. Maybe shows just how out of her depth she it.

 

[Purple]

There came a point when Ireland had to stop playing the victim card and that was a very long time ago.
We all partied.

Yes, certainly since the early to mid 80's, maybe a decade earlier than that but most emigration took place in the 50's and 60's. Back then we were still suffering the consequences of Colonial rule and the trade war (which we lost) which was caused by our refusal to buy our own country back from our former rulers.