Bank of Ireland Staff- Lost Tracker

Discussion in 'Issues with tracker mortgages' started by Onceagain, Nov 28, 2015.

  1. Onceagain

    Onceagain Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
    Did you go on a fixed rate mortgage in January 2007 for 2 years and in doing so lose the right to return to your tracker mortgage. Did you complain at the time, but were stone walled, did you give up and get on with paying your mortgage???
    Well there are 1800 of us. Some have left BOI and some are still working with the bank. I am in contact with many, if you are unsure if it's effects you for whatever reason, check your documentation. We are making good progress with our complaint's. If you haven't seen Prime Time on Tuesday 24th, you can watch it via the RTE player. Let's stop digging our heads in the sand, we are customer's of the bank first. 2096 Bank of Ireland customer's already had their trackers restored, why are we being treated any different??In fact there was a section set up in Bank of Ireland to deal with this very problem, which only closed recently!! We need it re-opened and all our cases reviewed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  2. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    Could it have something to do with the fact that, unlike the 2,096 borrowers that had trackers restored, you actually had no contractual right to roll over to a tracker on the expiry of the fixed term?

    I appreciate that Pádraig Kissane stated very clearly on the Prime Time programme that the 1,800 BOI staff should be treated the same as the 2,096 borrowers that had their trackers restored. He may be right but he offered no explanation for this position. Can you?

    I'm not having a go - I genuinely don't understand the basis of your complaint.
     
  3. Onceagain

    Onceagain Frequent Poster

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    Hi Sarenco, Who says we had no contractual right? Have you seen the relevant documentation of the 1800 staff?

    I want to make people aware of the situation. It's not necessary to got through everything here with your good self, the Central Bank and the FSOB are currently doing that. Lets be honest Sarenco if I say black you will say white. I am saving my energy for the big boys, unless your one of them????

    The reason for me posting is to highlight the situation to those that may not be aware or to those that are scared to come forward because they are currently staff.

    Not having a go, just genuinely confident
     
  4. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    Are you going to argue that you did in fact have a contractual right to roll over to a tracker at the end of the fixed rate term? What is the basis for your confidence?

    I have absolutely no vested interest in this matter one way or another but I am curious why you think you had a right to roll over to a tracker. You must have some basis for your opinion.

    Otherwise, what "situation" are you trying to bring to readers' attention?

    No, I haven't reviewed any of the underlying documents. However, the internal BOI memo from October 2008 reported on the Prime Time programme stated that roughly 1,800 staff members signed MFAs when they opted for the staff rate fixed interest product in 2006/07, those MFAs superseded the terms of their original loan offers and did not entitle borrowers to roll over to a tracker rate at the end of their fixed term.

    I have no idea whether or not this memo accurately summarised the contractual position but presumably you are suggesting that it is inaccurate in some way. Would you care to elaborate why you are of this opinion?

    I gather the FSO has rejected similar complaints in the past. Do you think your complaint can be differentiated from similar complaints that have been rejected in the past?

    Obviously you don't have to address any of my questions if you would prefer not to but I don't think it's fair to raise borrowers' expectations of a favourable resolution without offering any explanation for your position.
     
  5. Onceagain

    Onceagain Frequent Poster

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    Sarenco, staff can message me personally, ultimately the Central Bank will make the final decision. The MFA superseding the original terms is arguable, and in fact the bank have contradicted themselves on that very matter.

    I am offering nothing but awareness, there are no guarantee's, however lying down and rolling over is not an option. Don't we do enough of that in Ireland.
    I would prefer to raise borrowers awareness, then borrower's not knowing at all.
     
  6. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    Awareness of what though? That you've made a complaint to the FSO but you won't tell us the basis for your complaint?

    BOI will already have received your complaint so you can't be concerned that you will be revealing your hand by posting here.

    How have the bank contradicted themselves? I assume the MFA said the terms of the original loan offer remain unchanged save as provided for in the MFA (or wording to that effect). No?
     
  7. Onceagain

    Onceagain Frequent Poster

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    That we lost our trackers, this is not argument over being short changed in the local shop. A difference of €500 per month for me personally. I take it that is something you know nothing about.

    As I said in my original post Sarenco, the Central Bank can go through the in's & out's, it's not your call. I am not looking for 3rd party opinion, it's past that.
     
  8. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    So you want to alert borrowers that they are not on trackers? That's helpful.

    As it happens, until recently I had a variable rate mortgage with BOI. I'm not complaining about it - that was the contract I signed.

    €500 per month is a meaningful amount in anybody's world - it would certainly be very material to me. But what does that have to do with this issue?

    I'm not suggesting that I have any right to determine anything regarding this matter and I have not offered you an opinion on anything.

    All I have asked you to do is explain the basis for your complaint. If you don't want to do so, well, that's your prerogative.
     
  9. Pelican

    Pelican Registered User

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    I am one of those 1800 staff who was unwittingly coaxed off their tracker rate. My scenario is I had a tracker rate from February 2004. In August 2006 I switched to a staff variable rate which at the time was cheaper than the tracker. At no time was it ever explained the implications of moving from the tracker rate. I then went on to a Staff fixed rate in January 2007. My original letter of agreement states that the tracker rate will apply for the term of the loan. I too have written to Bank of Ireland but was told because I did not move directly from a tracker I was not now entitled to it. Wonder have I a case ?
     
  10. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    Hi Pelican

    What did the documentation that you received when you fixed in January 2007 say would happen when your fixed term expired? That's really the key question.
     
  11. Pelican

    Pelican Registered User

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    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
    Have requested a copy of the MFA signed in January 2007. They enquired why I wanted same. Guess they have had a few requests after the Prime Time Programme.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
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  12. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    You should also request the MFA signed in August 2006 (if you haven't already) as it may be relevant depending on what the January 2007 MFA provides.
     
  13. Onceagain

    Onceagain Frequent Poster

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    Hi Pelican, the timings are the same for all of us, January 2007, might be a good idea once you have received the MFA , to formally write to BOI.
     
  14. HelpingHand

    HelpingHand Registered User

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    Did the MFA document issued by BOI inform you, in plain and intelligible language, that you should seek independent legal advice before signing the document ?
     
  15. todo

    todo Frequent Poster

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    I have often wondered about the validity of the financial institutions relying on praises such as "seek independent legal advice" to back up their case where they have not spelled out in clear simple language what they are actually trying to achieve. Such as moving members who are on a tracker to a fixed rate, so that they can then only return to a variable rate at a later date.

    In reality you ask the solicitor to look at the agreement, they see that you want to move to a fixed rate and everything looks ok to them also.
    While your under the impression that you can return to a tracker and have no reason to ask the solicitor at that point in time if that will be possible, as your expectation is that it will be.
     
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  16. rodger

    rodger Frequent Poster

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    Well said.

    It's all about consumer protection.

    There was none!

    And the reason there was none is because the powers that be are trying their best to shore up the banks.

    Everything went wrong at the same time.

    But poor ex tracker holders were hit the worst.
     
  17. HelpingHand

    HelpingHand Registered User

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    can either of you post the MFA to the site ?
     
  18. Onceagain

    Onceagain Frequent Poster

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    No where on the relevant MFA does it say to seek legal advise.
     
  19. HelpingHand

    HelpingHand Registered User

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    It is at least arguable that the BOI MFA ( Mortgage Form of Authorisation ) which is missing a clause asking the borrower to seek independent legal advice before signing said authorisation, falls significantly short of the legal requirements necessary to supplant any clause within a mortgage document. I would need someone to post the actual MFA to this thread to see how exposed BOI is, to this type of challenge to the authorisations legal legitimacy.
     
  20. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    It doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the enforceability of the MFA.