20 years until retirement with no pension or savings...

Thanks for the update, it was super helpful. It is easy to see the assumptions we can make without the full picture.

I would stay where you are.
Start the pension at the 3 % contribution asap
Pay off the home loan as soon as you can but mind you don’t leave yourself even €1000 savings.
Stop saving for the kids education. You can’t afford to save currently.
Once the loan is paid off you will have some breathing space and start to save for car replacement, college, etc.

I think it is just the home improvement loan has taken your savings and your spare cash.

Any chance of earning more yourself? It will be hard for your spouse to work enough to cover childcare and take the kid to the endless appointments.

Best of luck
 
Did you buy the house for €270,000 in 2018 and it's now worth €900,000.

That's annual appreciation of 35% every year for the last four years? Really?
 
Thanks @Clamball - that's some great advice. There might be a possibility to earn more, I'm considering some extra work so that I can pay the loan off even faster. Might happen, we will see.

Yes, that's correct @NoRegretsCoyote - my choice of words was poor in that previous post @Sarenco @Protocol @PebbleBeach2020, but that is what I was trying to say, that several years ago it cost 72.77% of the current valuation... so 900k x 0.7277 = 655k. The valuation was from a local estate agent a couple months ago. Probably would have been clearer if I had said the house has appreciated by about 37% over the past years since we bought it, including the renovations. Our previous house went the other direction (and quite badly) after the 2006/2007 property bubble, so it's nice to see it going in our favour this time around.
 
Would this (company scheme with company matched contribution) be considered the fastest and most optimal way to build up your pension fund?
This is a bit of a red herring. While it obviously helps, it is more important for you to reach the maximum level of contribution that you can afford. At 50, you can contribute up to 30% of your income so you need to strive for this. The best way of doing this is for your wife to return to work as soon as is reasonable.

Cash/savings: 0
With the level of debt that you have (mortgage & home loan) and 3rd level on the horizon for the 3 older kids, you are likely to need additional loans when all 3 could be in university together. With a single income, you are at serious risk of missing payments and affecting your credit report which could make it very difficult to access loans in the future

Life insurance:
Yes, cover for 400k+
You are massively under-insured. If anything happened to you, the €400k covers your debts. Your spouse would have no ability to maintain your current lifestyle even if they returned to work. The home would have to be sold to free up money. Ideally this wouldn't have to be done at least until the older 3 are through university and independent

Our mortgage is 3.15 times my gross salary, so it's bit under the new Central Bank lending loan-to-income limit.
IMO, this is a failure of the CB rules. You might have been within the limits but in your mid-40's with a single income, 5 dependents and no pensions, the bank should never have allowed you to borrow that amount as it is now putting you under pressure

there are lots of 3rd level colleges to choose from when the kids reach that age, plus they could live at home if the end up going to college in the area
This is not a choice but a necessity. As your kids approach 15/16, you should talk to them as adults and explain some of the financial choices you are making. You can't afford to pay their rent elsewhere so they have to choose a university closer to home. Encouraging them to get weekend and holiday work will also take the pressure off you

We manage our family budget in a large spreadsheet, every penny is accounted for from the moment I get paid each month. We change gas/electricity/broadband providers every year on the exact day the contract is up to keep costs are a bare minimum. Shop at discount supermarkets such as Lidl to keep costs down. Two cars in the household, both over 10 years old. Nothing fancy, no frills, no crazy expensive purchases, food is always on the table and bills/loans always paid, one "budget" holiday once a year... but yes, it is tight, especially with the cost of living these days.
This is encouraging that you have good control of your budget. You should be able to see how important it will be for your spouse to return to work and the impact that an additional €20/30/40k will have on your ability to fund pension and clear debt.

Overall, I don't think you should sell based on your ideal location for 3rd level (no rents) and the additional needs of one of your children. Its far more important for your spouse to have some form of income.

But even if you manage to get a decent pension fund together, downsizing is always an option when you your kids are independent which will further improve your quality of life in retirement.

You have already made a lot of sacrifices to raise your family so don't start getting any strange notions (like many do) about keeping this home as the kids inheritance. There is a good chance that one of you could live to 90+ so your kids will be in their 50's before that is on the cards. Its much more important that you have a decent quality of life in retirement and selling your PPR should be part of that plan
 
IMO, this is a failure of the CB rules. You might have been within the limits but in your mid-40's with a single income, 5 dependents and no pensions, the bank should never have allowed you to borrow that amount as it is now putting you under pressure
I fully agree. These rules are the same for a 25YO as a 45YO.

The younger person has of course longer to pay the loan off and is likely to see income increase over time. For the older person it's the opposite, earnings peak on average at about age 50.

I think that these rules are substituting for sensible risk assessment both by banks and borrowers. This was never what they were designed for. @pacmon has a lot of debt for his age, income, and asset position. I think it could turn out well once spouse returns to work and large pension contributions start being made, but it's a lot of risk.

@_OkGo_ is totally right on life insurance. Something like €700k would be more prudent.
 
With the level of debt that you have (mortgage & home loan) and 3rd level on the horizon for the 3 older kids, you are likely to need additional loans when all 3 could be in university together.
The OP should not be taking on additional loans they can't afford.

How about the adults (they will be adults) get jobs and pay for their own education? Or at least contribute to the costs. Maybe defer further education for 2-3 years until they are more mature, have a better idea of what they want to do and have some savings built up to help cover the costs.
 
IMO, this is a failure of the CB rules. You might have been within the limits but in your mid-40's with a single income, 5 dependents and no pensions, the bank should never have allowed you to borrow that amount as it is now putting you under pressure

The Central Bank rules are designed primarily to protect the banks from themselves.

The OP will be able to repay this loan by retirement.

They made a choice to have 4 kids and they can afford them although their retirement will not be as comfortable as it would otherwise be. But that is a perfectly valid choice to make.

Brendan
 
How about the adults (they will be adults) get jobs and pay for their own education?
This model is the most underused 'perk' in the country in a lot of cases. They should be encouraged to wait until they're over 23 before they decide to apply for a course. They can also be working and/or use the back to education grants. This gives them a way better chance or getting the course they want and making an informed choice as they are not competing with a rediculous best in class rather than most suited for model. It was only when I worked at the crappy, dirty, low paying jobs that I appreciated the 5 years of scrimping and studying that others did to be as smug as they were.
 
Personal details

Age: 47
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 49
Number and age of children: Four children: 12, 9, 8 and 4

Income and expenditure
Annual gross income from employment or profession: €106k
Annual gross income of spouse: €0
Monthly take-home pay: €6,000
Type of employment: Private sector - permanent full-time

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving?
- Barely breaking even every month, very difficult to save for pension or childrens' education

Summary of Assets and Liabilities
Family home worth €900k with a €334k mortgage remaining
Cash/savings: 0
Defined Contribution pension fund: 0
Company shares: 0

Family home mortgage information
Lender: Avant - 20 Year fixed term
Interest rate: 2.50%
If fixed, what is the term remaining of the fixed rate? 20 years.
Monthly repayments: €1769

Other borrowings
Home Improvement Loan (40k)
Lender: Avant - 7.5 years remaining, €30k balance remaining
Interest rate: 5.9%
Monthly repayments: €500
Additional monthly payments: €300 (attempting to clear entire loan early - in ~3 years)

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?
YES

Other savings and investments:
- No investments
- Saving €50 a month for each child, deposited directly into their BoI Child Saver accounts, 0.25% interest rate (for future education)

Do you have a pension scheme?
No

Do you own any investment or other property?
No

Other information which might be relevant

Life insurance:
Yes, cover for 400k+

What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?

We have roughly 20 years until retirement age, and neither of us have a private pension. My employer has just introduced a company scheme, due to start in a few months, where they match up to 3% of an employee contribution - so I will be availing of this, and would hope to contribute even more. My wife is currently unemployed, due to looking after the children, although it is likely she will need to return to work so that we can maximise pension contributions and savings for our children's future education. We have a lot of catching up to do, and it appears we'll need to start lumping thousands into savings aggressively as soon as possible.

Pension Question
With 20 years until retirement age, we need to put as much into private pensions as possible. I'm assuming that the best way to get the most 'mileage' for our money is to be with a company scheme where the employer also matches a certain percentage, thereby building up the fund much faster than if it were just a private pension? Would this (company scheme with company matched contribution) be considered the fastest and most optimal way to build up your pension fund?

Education Fund Question
We are not saving enough for our children's education at the moment. The Zurich Insurance "cost of college calculator" estimates we should be putting at least 1k monthly into an investment fund. We're currently only saving 200 euro into child saver accounts, and the money isn't growing. We need to increase payments and move the money somewhere where it will grow. Would a fund with Zurich/Irish Life/other be the best way to go to maximise the return on the college savings?


Thanks for reading.

Have you reviewed you tax credits recently? It might be worth looking into the home carers tax credit or the incapacitated child tax credit. Does your wife receive DCA? The crazy thing about your situation is that if you and your wife were earning the same combined income split say €79K & €27K the annual take home pay would be €5K higher.
 
Thanks for such a great detailed reply @_OkGo_ - some very solid and thorough advice in your post. We are already starting to look at plans for my spouse to return to work - not immediately, but probably in about a year from now. I forgot to mention about a Death in Service benefit I have in my work. If something happened to me, it would pay out about 400k. And we're slightly over-insured on our life insurance at the moment, it is decreasing cover however. If something happened, mortgage would be paid off so total cash would be around 490k... so I would hope that would last for a good bit of time, in order to figure things out. Good advice as well about the important of going to 3rd level locally and starter jobs to take the pressure off us. Looking forward to a time in the near future when we can finally start funding both pensions, and to maximise those contributions in every way possible.

Thanks for the info @Harvard - yep, we have those tax credits and also DCA. Every little bit helps in this area.
 
What is your wife's earning potential if she returns to work?
When they are all in school can she work part time?
If that makes financial sense then hold off on worrying to much about your pensions until then.
 
I don’t think you are doing too bad overall pacmon. You are availing of all income, you are looking at ways to increase your income. You are tracking all spending and making it all work for you.

You have 4 kids to raise including one with extra needs and hospital visits which takes so much head space to cope with, because no one expects a sick child. It is not surprising your spouse is not earning, given that.

Your two big money worries are a pension which I would recommend availing of the work one, otherwise it is leaving money on the table, and you are right to consider how to fund your retirement.

The saving for the kids college is perhaps something that you are just not able to do. It sounds like you will be able to support them very well until the end of their second level education but probably not beyond apart from bed and board if they go to college locally. I would recommend explaining the financial situation to them, they probably know all about the spreadsheet. Then encourage them to get part-time jobs, apply themselves to their course work, apply for prizes and grants and take out loans for fees. Maybe encourage them to look at apprenticeships or other alternate routes to earning and studying.

If you need to choose, I think it is shortsited not to choose the pension first. 3% is very small but it may be all you can afford for a few years.
 
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