Quinn-Life versus RaboDirect

Hi,

I'm in two minds wrt to saving with either Quinn-Life or RaboDirect. I had planned on saving, say 150 Euro a month with maybe a 2000 start. RaboDirect seem to have better returns and a wider range of funds but having to sort out my own tax affairs at the end of it seems offputting. (I still haven't managed to organise getting the tax back from my bin tokens!)

Quinn-Life on the other hand might have less of a return (not that much admitedly) and less funds to choose from but have no charges and sort out any tax issues for me. I already have a Quinn-Life policy for my child's education so having a RaboDirect fund, being separate, might be more attractive.

Would anyone know of anything else I should consider?

BTW When cashing in either fund must I cash in the fund in its entirety or is it possible just to cash in the part of the fund that say is in Chinese Equity?

monnigblower said:

RaboDirect seem to have better returns

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Past performance is not a guide to future returns. You may also not be comparing like with like - e.g. QL's passive index tracking funds versus RaboDirect's actively managed funds with a different asset mix and approach to investment.

and a wider range of funds

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Yes - they do.

but having to sort out my own tax affairs at the end of it seems offputting. (I still haven't managed to organise getting the tax back from my bin tokens!)

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If find RaboDirect's DIY approach to taxation offputting as well. It removes one of the key advantages of investing indirectly versus directly in my opinion. You can do you bin tax stuff online if you register for Revenue's PAYE online service.

Quinn-Life on the other hand might have less of a return (not that much admitedly) and less funds to choose from but have no charges and sort out any tax issues for me.

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They don't have NO charges. They charge an annual management fee of 1%-1.5% (reducing after 15 years if you stay that long). Rabo charge 0.7%-2.0% but also charge 0.75% on entry and again on exit on most or all funds (bar when they have special offers where they waive either or both).

I already have a Quinn-Life policy for my child's education so having a RaboDirect fund, being separate, might be more attractive.

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Why? Diversification or something else?

Would anyone know of anything else I should consider?

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RaboDirect's online system is a lot more feature rich that QL's if that matters to you.

BTW When cashing in either fund must I cash in the fund in its entirety or is it possible just to cash in the part of the fund that say is in Chinese Equity?

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You can cash in as many units of a fund that you want subject to any minimum encashment values that the provider may have (possibly none).

MB - I can give you a bit of info based on my own experiences. I have a Rabo savings account as well as an investment account. Also, My SSIA was with Quinn Life (Celtic Freeway) which came out at over €30k after tax. Pretty damn good return!!

You are right about the access to the funds - Rabo offer more. The thing to look out for though is the entry and exit fees. These are normally about 1.5% if I remember correctly. QL do not have any such charges. also, check out the yearly management charges. QL is 1% and the Rabo's start at 1.5%. You can check this info on their website.

I started off about 2 years ago buying some funds with Rabo - I saw it as an easy way to get access. You simply open an account with them and buy (and sell) the funds through the one web interface. However, since the I have opened a Sharewatch account and buy shares directly. No more management fees!

I've also left the QL lump in place with the Celtic Freeway fund. I've been happy with it up to now so I saw no reason to change.

Deano said:

The thing to look out for though is the entry and exit fees. These are normally about 1.5% if I remember correctly.

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It's not necessarily 1.5% of the original sum invested it could be more (if your investment has risen in value when you encash) or less (if it has fallen in value when you encash) since it is 0.75% of the original sum invested plus 0.75% of the value of the fund on exit (unless I'm mistaken in which case I'm sure somebody will correct me).

QL do not have any such charges. also, check out the yearly management charges. QL is 1% and the Rabo's start at 1.5%. You can check this info on their website.

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No - [broken link removed] are 0.7%-2% while are 1%-1.5% reducing to 0.5%-1% after 15 years.

Was anyone aware that QL fund have different charges for different funds AND if you pick a mixture of funds it is the largst charge over all the funds.

for example if you have an investment with the following funds

30% Fund 1 - 1% charge
30% Fund 2 - 1% charge
40% Fund 3 - 1.5% charge

Then the charge is 1.5% for the entire investment. I talked to somebody at QL today and I couldn't believe it!

Be aware that Quinn funds aim to track various indices. Some (all?) Rabo funds are managed funds and so are slightly different in their aims.

Which is 'better' is very much a matter of personal opinion.

Was anyone aware that QL fund have different charges for different funds AND if you pick a mixture of funds it is the largst charge over all the funds.

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Don't think that's correct -- management charge is priced into the unit price, which is fund specific.

Yeah - I am also skeptical that the highest annual management fee applies where one invests in a mix of funds for the same reasons as MugsGame mentoins. I would not be so skeptical of employees of financial institutions getting their facts wrong though.

ClubMan said:

Yeah - I am also skeptical that the highest annual management fee applies where one invests in a mix of funds for the same reasons as MugsGame mentoins. I would not be so skeptical of employees of financial institutions getting their facts wrong though.

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Agreed. And I'm pretty certain each fund gets charged at its own rate. But in fairness to Quinn staff, I've always found them to be well informed and helpful. Maybe someone new at Quinn or a misunderstanding between caller & staffer.

I rang back again this morning and it was as Clubman and MugsGame suggested. The charge is built into the fund cost and therefore proportional to the split in your funds.

I wouldn't mind only I challeneged the lady I talked to a couple of times yesterday to verify because what she was saying didn't sound right. Bizarre!

Another plus for QL is that if you keep all your funds in the one policy you can switch between them without incurring tax on the gains; so if you are into asset allocation strategies and say one of your finds has outperformed you can switch some of the gain to other funds to maintain your preferred allocation without incurring charges. QL give you two switches a year, then it’s €25 a switch, but it must be within the same policy.