Key Post: Central Heating

I am wondering does anyone know if this is a good deal or not. I have just received a quote of €13k for a total re-plumbing of an old end terrace 3 bed hse to include 13 rads, new boiler, cylinder, suites (main b/room, ensuite and d/stairs wc) and installation of suites. Thanks for any help!

I rang a mate who works in the building industry. He reckons for your fixtures and fittings you're looking at max 6000. This comes down if you shop around. He said if the house was empty it could be done in a weekend. 7K seems a bit excessive to me for 2 days work. Bertie doesnt get that. If you buy all the f+f yourself you'll be saving the mark up on them from your fitter. Heat Merchants do good deals on suites. I recently got a load of bathroom fittings from them for 1000 which was costing me 1750 form Davies in Fairview. If you shop around for the f+f you'll get a great deal. Then shop around for a fitter. Remember to haggle as much as you can. The first price is usually for suckers.

Heating/Plumbing Cost

thats exactly what I was quoted for 6k for f/f incl 1.5k for boiler and 7k for labour which I thought was maddness - he reckons it will take at least 2wks! Do you know of any good plumbers

costs

Hi renovator !
For the quoted price you might get an underfloor heating system , for the standard 13 radiator solution it's certainly over charged . The €1500 boiler is hopefully a combi-condensing type from heatmearchants ?! Otherwise your plumber certainly wants to rip you of .
Check heatmerchants or woodys yourself about the radiators . You might need two coils of Qualpex or a similar piping ( 100 m of the 15 mm 50 m of the 21 mm strength for about € 150 ) 26 bends and other junction material for around € 250 and 13 thermostatic valves for € 260 + some elbow grease .For what's left over book a long holiday in the south and buy " Collins DIY " or a similar book .

heating/plumbing

Heatmerchants actually have a pretty good website which includes prices.
You can check out a few boiler prices there at :

heatmerchants

Laoise

Re: heating/plumbing

Assuming I can source a boiler (thanks also heinbloed for your reply on my related query) how do I find a good fitter for it ? I don't feel competent to install a gas appliance myself.

Has anyone any recommendations for someone who would do this - Dublin Southside.

Thanks.

installing

You can install it yourself EXCEPT the gas connection . Meaning all the water pipes and hanging it on to the wall ,
and supplying it with electricity . Once you are finished with that get a registered gas fitter to connect it to the gas mains and to do the final check and for certifying the job . That's important for your insurance and your beloveds .Most boilers work on a water pressure of 1 - 1.5 bar so you can pressure test your plumbing with the aid of the mains , provided it delivers enough .But in the tool hire you can get also a pressure testing kit .
I can't recommend any fitters but where you buy your boiler and plumbing stuff they surely a have phone number for you . A hint : go there asking at rush hour time and you have the free choice because the fitters have to cue as well to get their things . For a better deal ask your neighbours for a local fitter who might be quicker to come around .
When you buy an item worth €1500 you can ask for the installers manual , certainly the manufacturer will supply you with it before you buy the thing .Baxi and Vokera do so anyhow .

heating/plumbing

Hi just to fill you in - I got a quote for €9k for everything.
Saving €4k - so it pays to shop around!!
Thaks for the help

heating/plumbing

Just to let you know I got another quote for 9k - saving 4k!! So it pays to shop around!
Thanks for the help

Cost

Did you compare the quality of the Sanitary Ware?

What about the radiators, valves, boiler, type of showers etc.

What about the controls oon the heating system, is it zoned?

My point being, if you go out looking for a car, would you buy a Lada because its the cheapest?

You can install it yourself EXCEPT the gas connection

"You can install it yourself EXCEPT the gas connection . Meaning all the water pipes and hanging it on to the wall ,
and supplying it with electricity . Once you are finished with that get a registered gas fitter to connect it to the gas mains and to do the final check and for certifying the job" .


The certification covers a lot more than the gas line.
It covers the wet side of the system and the electrics.
I doubt you will find anyone who will certify a DIY job.

"I can't recommend any fitters but where you buy your boiler and plumbing stuff they surely a have phone number for you"


Contact Bord Gais for a list of Authorised Installers

Some other posts

euroDilbert
Registered User
Replacement Gas Boiler

Looking for some advice on replacing a Gas central heating boiler - looks as if mine has given up the ghost - wrong time of year to live without it unfortunately.

Anyway, any suggestions on the best make and/or installers - or should I just go to Bord Gais ?

I am based Dublin Southside.

Thanks,

eD

heinbloed
Unregistered User
gas boiler

For efficiency reasons Bord gais would sell you a very expensive one that might save on gas . To get a better overview what is on the market check www.sedbuk.com

I bought my self the VOKERA hydra for €1400 + VAT from heatmerchants and installed it myself , it works perfect .
You have to shop around for the best price , the recommended retail price is something for the rich and uninformed .

Laoise
Unregistered User
gas boilers

Although they are more expensive to buy, Condensing Boilers are to be recommended for their efficiency. Most models have ca 90 to 92% efficiency rates as opposed to the 65 to 80% efficiency ratings of non-condensing boilers. That means that you burn a lot less gas to achieve the same heating levels which, in turn, saves on your gas bills. The extra initial cost of the more expensive condensing boiler will soon pay for itself and from then on you save all the way on gas.
Laoise

kk
Unregistered User
Storage Heating

I'm thinking of buying a small bungalow with storage heating. The only other house I am familiar with, which has this type of heating, is a very cold house, especially in the morning. And it takes hours to heat the house. Is this house a bad example of an otherwise good heating system?

I am a particularily cold blooded person!

Siddo
Unregistered User

The older the colder i used to say.....

Older houses usually have poor ventilliation , solid or poured concrete walls with no insulation. YOu might find that installing central heating could be expensisve due to the concrete walls but if its brick work well then you are someway their , i installed a oil fire unit into a 3 bed tce costed a total of 4950 for oil burner, tank and 9 radiators. The house is like an oven, i would check the house for dampness , buying houses like your this time of year can be dangerous as yo do not see the winter effects due to the dryness.

But your heatrers are power drain and tend to give very little in the way of good heat , i personally hate the things.

0
Frequent poster

Storage heating is fine (albeit not the cheapest option) when used in a well insulated (e.g. ESB Goldshield) property. We have it at home in our 1995 built Goldshield house and rarely have to supplement the storage heating with additional heating (electric convection heaters, open fire etc.). If the house is not well insulated then ANY heating system is at a disadvantage straight off and is not going to work to maximum efficiency. Check the property for insulation such as well insulated attic, well insulated/draught proof doors/windows, double glazing preferably, wall insulation (internal or dry lining) etc.

heinbloed
Unregistered User
Storage Heating

Electric heating is the most expensive heating you can get . Check for detailed calculations www.irish-energy.ie
Something else that is usually overseen is the environmental damage caused by using electricity as well as electromagnetic waves caused during the charging of an electric storage heating element . Older storage heaters might contain asbestos .

Cahir
Registered User
Re: Storage Heating

Storage heating is useless if you work during the day. I have storage heating in the apartment I'm renting. If I turn on the heating it's lovely and warm for the 10 mins I'm there in the morning but by the time I get home (between 6 & it's freezing and I have to turn on the convection heater anyway.

0
Frequent poster
Re: Storage Heating

I find storage heating grand for keeping the house (well insulated as I mentioned before - Goldshield) at a comfortable level of "background" heating all day/evening long. I rarely have to turn the "output" on the storage heaters up as they seem to emit enough heat all day long anyway. One problem with storage heating is when you get a sudden change in environmental weather/temperature conditions to which the storage heaters can't react immediately since they charge up at night based on prevailing temeratures at the time... Cost can also be an issue as mentioned above.

cardigan
Unregistered User
Storage heating

Be sure to check the rooms for the amount of outside walls there are. As it's a house I presume it's got more than say an apt. would have but it could be terraced. The more external walls you have, the harder it is to heat with storage heating.
Also recently I called ESB and they told me that an electric storage heater (I have ESB Goldshield heating) cost approx. €60 bi-monthly to operate which is pretty high. I have storage heating in my apartment and it's fine if you can work it well, I also have apartments on eiher side of me and I'm on the second floor so it's toasty most of the time - but the other poster is right, it's so warm during the day and not as warm at night. Even though it works for me right now, I am currently looking to move house and storage heating is a defintie NO NO for me for this move.

kk
Unregistered User
Gas

The house is maybe 10-15 years old. All walls are exposed to the great outdoors! The house is about 700 sq feet. So all space is near an external wall or window.

Is it about 3,000 to install gas - does anyone know?

Jamie and his magic torch
Registered User
Re: Gas

Hi Gas,

Just in the process of installing a gas central heating system. The cost is 6K for a boiler, 11 rads, hot water cylinder and attic water tank. All rads have thermostats and all piping will be copper. Also includes digital timer and all installation. This is for a 1.4K sq ft house. Obviously as you will not need as many rads this will reduce but I would say you are looking at a bill of 4K to 4.5K as a guess. When my heating is installed I will let you know how it turns out. These guys were very competitive and were over 2K cheaper that what a Bord Gais rep quoted me. This company I am dealing with are authorised installers for Bord Gais.

anon2398
Unregistered User
Anyone know if zoned heating is worth the extra money

I'm looking for some quick advice! Mr. Plumber is in today to start our re-piping job (amoungst a growing list of things!) and just rang us to say he could put in zoned heating i.e heat upstairs separately from downstairs, for extra €300. Anyone know if this is worth it - or is this a gimmick, would it ever be used?

Thanks in advance.

stobear
Frequent poster
Re: Anyone know if zoned heating is worth the extra money

Dont know much about this, but took a snoop around a massive showhouse recently, they had 4 gas boilers in the utility room, which I assumed was doing what you describe, heating different areas of the house without fiddling with rads. Inital outlay could be recovered long term if you made efficient use of the feature. This link describes in more detail [broken link removed]

legend99

No matter what kind of boiler you have as far as I aware to have zones you will need motorised valves to stop the supply to a zone etc.
This would have to be done during the piping really and is well worth it.

I suspect that with the green house gasses and proposed carbon tax eventually it will be a regulation to have to get zoned heating in new builds....not sure if it there yet.

heinbloed
Unregistered User
zoned heating

What doe you- or your plumber- mean by "zoned heating"-(thermostatic)valves on the radiators?
When you burn your rubbish in the open fire something like a controlled room temperature might be something new for you .So ask your plumber what he means,usually this term is used for underfloor heating .

carla
Unregistered User
zones

we have zoned heating that was set up on a Stanley and works by turning the valves or motors (not sure which or both) on. We have a set of digital timers (much more convenient than manual ones) and we set the different zones for different times, e.g. upstairs doesn't come on until later in the evening than the main downstairs area. There is also a switch for the actual Stanley itself which, if turned on on its own, heats the water with no heating.
Whether you save money or not depends on your usage, we do because of later timing on upstairs heating and also at weekends we might turn on the downstairs heating for a bit during the day - upstairs is not needed then.
By the way, what is your plumber charging for - changing the piping, setting up the timers (need electrician also I think), etc.?

Some other posts

mary
Unregistered User
new house - oil central heating

we're moving into our new house soon. the heating is oil so once we get a fill of oil will we have to get a plumber out to bleed the radiators or is this a relatively straight forward task that any DIY enthusiast could undertake?

okidoki987
Registered User
Re: new house - oil central heating

Dead simple.
Just get a radiator key in any DIY shop and make sure you have a towel under it before you open the value.
Open the value with the key and let the air escape until there's a small drop of water and that's all the air gone.

legend99
Posts: 323

I think the system at the very start needs more than just simple bleeding...I thought technically it should be balanced as well or something like that?

Alpha
Unregistered User
Bleeding

Before bleeding turn off the pump (or boiler if necessary)

Bleeding itself is a very simple job.

After bleeding turn on all radiators for a while. If one or more are not getting hot enough then you'll need to get the system balanced. This means adjusting the flow on rads around the circut so that all the hot water isn't going to the first rads encountered. Best to get a plumber for this. Very fiddly job to get right

When checking the temprature it should be an even temp for each radiator. If part of the radiator is not heating at all then the problem is not to do with balancing but rather a blockage or airlock in radiator.

legend99

Thought you needed to have the pump on to bleed because you needed pressure in the system to expel the air from the bleed valve..at least thats how I always do it and thought it correct

alpha
Unregistered User
to pump or not to pump

Guess it depends on the system but in a standard system where the water in the heating system comes from a storage tank in the attic then the pump should be off.

If the pump is left on there is a danger you'd propigate airlocks through your system (in practice I think this is unlikely). The pressure to drive the air out of the radiators comes from the gravity feed of water from the attic tank.

legend99
Posts: 337

thinking of a closed system....

mary
Unregistered User
heating

just found out that the system will be commissioned before we move in i.e. oil is put in tank and they turn on central heating and leave on for an hour or so and check all the radiators etc.

Alpha
Unregistered User
Sorted

Sounds good Mary, Still it's worth checking yourself to ensure that the Rads are all working properly. This time of year it might be another 6 months before you need to use them at which stage it might be tough to get your plumber back.

glenamaddy
Registered User
oil burners

FYI

The oil line requires venting in this situation, not the radiators as they are completly seperate from the burner.

sueellen
Moderator
Gas Heating -v- Oil Heating

Presently have oil heating (and solid fuel) and thinking of changing to gas or if possible dual oil/gas.

Any advice/recommendations?

ajapale
Frequent poster
Re: Gas Heating -v- Oil Heating

Hi Sueellen,

Since gas and oil prices move in tandem and since the price of oil is likely to rise I suggest you go for the dual solid fuel and oil. This way if the price of gas and oil goes up you can burn more solid fuel and if the price of oil goes down you can burn more oil. In times of volatile pricing it pays to have flexibility.
ajapale
ps I havent heard from "heinbloed" in a few weeks but im sure he will have something to say about my suggestions.

sueellen
Moderator
Re: Gas Heating -v- Oil Heating

Thanks for the reply. Had hoped that heinbloed, glenamaddy or effortless might drop by and read this post ............

Presently have oil and solid fuel but wanted to keep other options open.

heinbloed
Unregistered User
gas/oil heating

The most economic solution for your heating problem would a gas fueled combi/condensing boiler. It safes you the tank,the refilling of it as well as the mess associated with it .No more chimney sweeping.
Soon we will enjoy the benefits of a free market even in the gas sector (was it 2005?),so you would not depend on one company alone.

glenamaddy
Registered User
gas v oil

gas = way forward

Less maintenence, cleaner fuel, more compact boilers,etc.

however due to Board Gais stringent safety requirements they do not allow for dual fuel arrangements.

Murt10
Registered User
Re: gas v oil

We recently changed from oil to gas and are v satisfied.

We now have extra space in the kitchen where the old boiler was. The new boiler is much smaller and no longer in the kitcher. Also we can now get rid of the tank in the garden.

I would also leave the fireplace alone if you have one. It can be used as a backup in the event of an ESB or Gas strike and you will still have a means of keeping the house warm.

Anyway, nothing beats a real fire on certain occasions.

rainyday
Registered User
Re: gas v oil

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
gas = way forward
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Until, of course, our reserves are exhausted.

glenamaddy
Registered User

Same with Oil, which is rocketing in price at the moment.

Some other posts

seph
Registered User
home heating conversion

hi there,
i am thinking of converting my house, which is let, from oil to mains gas.the reason is because the oil burner is located in the kitchen and has become smelly and noisey. I could move the burner to outside the house and stay with the oil but im thinking that gas is the better option. I would appreciate advice on this please.........
Is this a good idea and is it likely to add to house value ?
How do i get rid of the oil tank in the garden?, is this removed when i convert by the bord gas people ?
is there anything i should be aware of before doing this or is it really straight forward ?

heinbloed
Unregistered User
home heating conversion

To go from oil to gas will ad to the value of your house since you gain more space,get rid of the smell and if you decide to go for a condensing boiler than you can say by-by to the chimney and the chimney sweeper.A condensing boiler needs no traditional chimney , just an insulated pipe through the wall.And if you get a condensing combi-boiler than you can throw out the hot press as well.Combi condensing boilers are devices the size of a small fridge and can be placed in the kitchen under or over the worktop,build-in like a fridge or free standing/hanging.They produce domestic hot water on demand-just open the tap and they start working.Turn on the radiator and they start heating.There is no need for air holes in doors or walls,the air needed for combustion is taken from outside through the same duct through which the combustion gas/CO2 is blown out.
Under www.sedbuk.com you find various makers , many have their own home pages and these should give you more technical details.
The cheapest one is ,as far as I know,the "Vokera Hydra".I got it for €1400 plus VAT,from Cork Heatmerchants last year ,installed it myself and only had the registered(!) gas fitter connecting it.
These boilers are not noisy,they will burn the fuel complete , so all you will realize from the outside of the house
would be a small steam cloud coming from the duct,like from a laundery dryer,no "smoke" at all,no smell.
Empty the tank before removing it,give left over oil to your neighbour,don't pour it down the drain!
If you want to dismantle it yourself-it can be done.Hire a large angle cutter and safety equipment(quality dust mask class E2 or E3, good protective goggles,gloves,ear protection).Make sure that the tank is absolutely dry,no way to start working unless it is really dry-you could explode with it.Ask your installer what they would charge and figure it out.
It is straight forward work-once you know what you want.

house
Unregistered User
replacing thermostat

I have a shed at the end of the garden. the shed holds the oil burner which has a thermostat. I want to move the thermostat into the house. Anyone know how? Ive googled myself into the ground at this stage but still cant find the info.
cheers,
h.

heinbloed
Unregistered User
replacing the thermostat

You can buy remote controlled thermostats from HEATMERCHANTS , but you must give them details about your boiler.There are electric thermostats and mechanical ones ,some with timer and others with night temp.reduction.And your question didn't state the el.current at which the existing one is operating,what manufacturer etc..So better get some one in if HEATMERCHANTS -or any other good plumber shop-can't help.
One advice:If you don't want to waste money plus polluting the environment unnecessary bring the boiler into the house.Outside it has to run just to stop the pipes from freezing -and consequently from bursting-if you need it or not.Like having the car engine running over night to have an easy start in the morning.Idiotic.

house
Unregistered User
thermostat

Heinbloed,

thanks for the tip on heatmerchants, I'll check them out.

The thermostat is plugged into a timer on the wall so it only comes on when I want it to. When the pipes were laid to the shed they were well insulated, theyre down 5 years now and they havent frozen yet so Im not worried about that.

The existing one is of the type that has 2 metal sensors (I presume have mercury in them) that go in to the boiler, so Im guessing its mechanical. The lekky is coming from the house so whatever your bog standard current is, that whats its running off.

I was hoping for a remote digital one if the price wasnt too bad but Id settle for running a line from the shed to the house.

Its not for me you understand, the missus hates going out to the shed in her slippers, the poor dear.

collieb
Registered User
Re: thermostat

what about sticking thermostatic valves on the radiators?

house
Unregistered User
valves

I could put the rad valves on, but wouldnt that only control the rads locally when the heating system was on and eating oil? So I wouldnt have thought it the most economical thing to have. I suppose if I had the gas it may work.
I do have the valves off in the rooms not being used. I guess its kind of the same thing.

glenamaddy
Registered User
Re: stat

The thermostat you describe is a Boiler stat. It is a mechanical device that contains 2 thermostats. A regular one, which you can adjust, and a hi-limit one, that locks out the boiler if the first one fails. It controls the temperature of the flow of water leaving the boiler.

These are often used (mistakenly) as a very primitive way of regulating air temperature.

What you need is a room stat located inside your house, which when satisfied, shuts down the boiler, note that this is completely separate and installed in addition with the boiler stat mentioned above.

If you are that concerned about fuel consumption you should consider zoning your heating system, into different zones, i.e. upstairs, downstairs, and hot water.


macnas
Unregistered User

The thermostat in my immersion is not operating properly. Can I replace the thermostat or the whole unit I did turn it down as low as I could with no change. The water is boiling hot!

heinbloed
Unregistered User
replacing

Hi macnas!
You can replace the thermostat of your immersion.A new one is available from any plumber supplier for little money.Switch off the electricity,turn off the water supply,drain the immersion,disconnect the thermostat,take out the old thermostat,put back the new one ,reconnect it etc....

macnas
Unregistered User

Thanks Heinblod but do I have to replace the whole unit if the thermostat is faulty? You tell me to take out the unit ,which I have replaced last year, sounds like using a JCB to crack a nut????

heinbloed
Unregistered User
thermostat

What "unit" are you talking about?You have to replace the thermostat,nothing else,I did not mention the -or any-unit.If the "unit" is only a year old than there should be still guarantee on it,2 years I think.

Anon2398
Unregistered User
themostat

I'm not very knowledgable on this topic, but did get similar work done on my house during re-wire and re-plumbing. The electrician should be able to wire in a thermostat to your house and put a time inside also. You will have to involve plumber also (we did all as part of gas conversion so slightly different for us).

house
Unregistered User
well

Having spent the weekend looking at some very pricey equipment, Im going to run a line from the house to the shed, have that line powering the boiler and just have that on a timer. Should be handy enough. Ok, I cant control the temperature from the house but controlling when the boiler comes on and off is good enough and the cheapest solution all round me thinks.
Now if only some knowledgable poster could tell me where to find a lekky wholesalers to sell me some gear, Im in business.. not buying it in woodies, even their new "take an hour to get in and out" flagship on the naas road.

Some other posts

jim1
Unregistered User
bord gais pricing

I was looking at the various price plans that bord gais offer and was finding it difficult to determine which one was the best to select:
www.bordgais.ie

I did a spreadsheet for various usage levels which seems to indicate that the reducing rate is the best option for users up to 13000Kwh per year - this seems to conflict with the advice given on the bord gais.

Anyone ever compare the various gas rates - am I missing something ?

heinbloed
Unregistered User
gas pricing

These pricing politics are not consumer friendly as you have found out.The competition authorities have already complained about it.With success:New costumers are to be charged one rate,no more minimum or maximum consumption , different tariffs for different amounts of gas.Existing costumers are keeping the old contract but only for a limited time period.
The idea was to have a similar counting system as the electricity companies,one meter-one price per unit.
On the www.sei.ie web page was the "story" as well,if you can't find it there you can check the "fuel comparison sheet" of the same web adress.There you will find a short reference in the gas price list. Sorry that I can't give you any direct references, I remember reading it a few weeks ago in the "breaking news" of the Irish Examiner .

Some other posts

jondicanio
kerosene as compared to home heating oil

Whats the difference between kerosene and home heating oil and which is cheaper?

ajapale
Re: kerosene as compared to home heating oil

Keosene is also known as paraffin. Diesel is also known as Gas Oil. I think Kerosene is more expensive.

I got the following from a site called TutorGig.com:

Kerosene
'Kerosene' or 'paraffin' is a colourless, thin, flammable liquid. A hydrocarbon mix, it is obtained from the fractional distillation of oil at 150nd 275the C12 to C15 range). At one time it was widely used in lamps but is now mainly used as a fuel in jet engine s. Its use a cooking fuel is mostly restricted to less developed countries, where it is usually less refined and contains impurities and even debris. Jet engine fuel, also called avtur, is supposed to be high-grade kerosene that produces less smoke.
Kerosene is also used in various types of lamp: see kerosene lamp .
Abraham Pineo Gesner (1797-1864) named it in 1854 from the Greek word keros ( wax ).
It is called kerosene in the United States and Australia, and paraffin in the United Kingdom. It is also sometimes called kerosine or coal oil.

Diesel
'Diesel' is a product used as a ' fuel '.
Petrodiesel
One can obtain diesel from petroleum , which is called 'petrodiesel'. As a hydrocarbon mixture, it is obtained in the fractional distillation of crude oil between 250nd 350t atmospheric pressure .
Biodiesel
One can obtain ' Biodiesel ' from vegetable oil and animal fats (bio- lipid s, using transesterification . Biodiesel is a non- fossil fuel alternative to petrodiesel.
Uses
Diesel is identical with heating oil, used in central heating . In both Europe and the United States taxes on diesel fuel are higher than on heating oil, and in Europe, heating oil is marked with dye and trace chemicals to prevent and detect tax fraud.
Diesel is used in diesel engine s (cars, boats, motorbikes...), a type of internal combustion engine . Rudolf Diesel originally designed the diesel engine to use coal dust as a fuel, but oil proved more effective.
The first diesel-engine automobile trip was completed on January 6 , 1930 . The trip was from Indianapolis, Indiana , to New York City - a distance of nearly 800 mile s. This feat helped to prove the usefulness of the engine.

Click to expand...

Hope this is of some assistance.
Ajapale

postagepaid
Registered User
Re: kerosene as compared to home heating oil

As I understand it kerosene burns cleaner and is a must if you have an indoor boiler. It is, as ajapale says, more expensive.

heinbloed
tax on bio-diesel

Hi Ajapale !

Taxes on bio diesel in the EU are a matter of the national finance ministers and do not adhere to EU policy on fuel taxes . In Germany and France for example there is no fuel tax on bio diesel . Phone Mc Crevy and ask him why it is not exempted here .Well, the farmers would drive their tractors to Lidl and Aldi for a fill where they used to demonstrate against the cheap prices .... Their voices would have to be bought some how else .....and the refinery would get competition....and the farmers would sell the cows and plant rapeseed instead...which would be used here instead of being exported ... which in turn would make them more independent from agricultural lobbyists ...and that costs donations,votes ....

Laoise
kero/diesel

Kerosene is a lighter distillation fraction than gas oil. In general kero will have a density of approx 790 kg/m3 and gas oil a density of ca 830 kg/m3 (in Ireland). The flash point of kerosene lies around 45 C, that of gas oil approx 65C. Kero was often used mixed with gasoil in older boilers for this reason, that it would get the boiler going more easily than the heavier gas oil. Modern boilers wouldn't really need that.
Kerosene is actually identical to jet A1 fuel as already mentioned above - the difference in classification arising only from the more extensive testing regimes required for Jetfuel before use.

Although the max allowed contents of sulphur for both products is 0.2%, in general kerosene produced in Ireland will have about ten times less sulphur than gas oil - about 0.01% as opposed to 0.14% in gas oil. Thus, it does burn with fewer SOx emissions.
The main difference between standard gasoil and automotive diesel (ie the diesel you buy for cars) is also the allowed sulphur content. Auto diesel has a max sulphur level of 0.035% Sulphur. Low sulphur diesel has an allowed sulphur max of 0.005% - which is the auto diesel specification produced in Ireland. (This is set to be reduced to 0.001% from 2005).
As Heinbloed mentioned, biodiesel is an alternative to gas oil or autodiesel and in fact I saw it selling in many garages in Berlin recently for about 10 cents per litre cheaper than standard autodiesel. These prices are, however, heavily subsidised with tax breaks.

elderdog
Registered User
Well posted Heinbloed

"Phone Mc Creevy and ask him why it is not exempted here "

I believe that Ireland is the only EU country not to take advantage of the special EU tax regime for biodiesel

Its a disgrace.

eDog

ajapale
Frequent poster
Re: Well posted Heinbloed

Since there is a general concencus developing around the issue of bio diesel and tax perhaps this should from part of the AAM budget submission next December?

Slim
Registered User
Re: Kerosene

Kerosene does not freeze as easliy as diesel oil. Winter deliveries of diesel home heating oil usually have some kero mixed in so that it does freeze. Had a delivery one time at end August and it froze in November. Oil co. said they only switch to Winter Grade on Sept. 1st. Aaaaagh!

Slim

Some other posts

gunnerbar
Registered User
Boiler problem

I have an oil fired central heating with the boiler outside.
Last week the tank went dry. After getting a refill I've found that the boiler doesn't fire up. Could I have caused damage to the boiler by letting my tank go dry or might the fuse blown/tripped when I tried to start the boiler on an empty tank.

Nappertandy
Boiler Problem

Had this problem myself, what has happened is that you have an airlock in the hose from the tank to the burner so the oil is not getting to the burner .You need to take the casing off the front of the burner and look for a bleed screw ( that will probably be a hexhead). Open it and you will hear air hiss out, the airlock is gone when the fuel starts to dribble out and she should fire up.
Some burners have two screws 'P' and 'V' ,in that case I can't remember which one it is, but ring up the guy who delivered your oil....he will know which one to open.

gunnerbar
Registered User
Re: Boiler problem

I'll try that when I get home!

Thanx.

Shaggy
Be Careful

Be careful when adjusting the bleed screw/nut - if there is only one then this also limits the correct airflow to your burner. Try counting the amount of turns you make as you bleed the airlock, then just simply turn the same amount to tighten. There may be no need to tighten to the max.


If you have already done this and your burner is making a horrible noise this may be the problem.

One more thing there is an over ride switch on the casing and this may have to be pushed in!

Hope everyting goes/went ok for you.

Some other posts

PGD
Frequent poster
radiator leak

Hi,

The pressure on my gas fired boiler keeps dropping. I have found a little leak.

The hot pipe comes from the boiler. Just before the immersion tank (downstairs), there is a another pipe with a tap which allows more water into the system. Just after this there is a junction of some kind at the immersion. There is a constant dripping from this.

1) Can I seal this in some way to stop it from dripping. It is the hot water pipe. Is there something I can apply to it while it is still dripping?

2) I keep getting lots of air/noises as a result. I normally add water into the system and the bleed the rads and then add more water in until the pressure is back up. Can I now leave this tap open, so that as water drips out, more water comes in. I presum if I leave the tap open it will just balance out somewhere rather than overflow somewhere???

Thanks.

heinbloed1
Registered User
radiator leak

I think it is not legal to have that tap constantly open.The reason is that pressure in the heating system will soon be the same as in the supply pipe. Once the pressure is the same there is the problem that during a low pressure in the main pipe some water from the heating system could go back in to the mains via the open tap.This would be dangerous health wise.
If you have an open system the feeder tank would overflow and the warm water that is leaving the system would be replaced by fresh cold water,increasing your heating bill dramatically.
So you better seal the pipe.It might be enough to adjust the junction washers with a spanner.If that doesn't do the trick than you would have to drain the system and loosen the washers next to the leak.You wrap some sealant tape(Teflon tape)around the threads and put back the washers .There are two ways to apply the tape-one is wrong.Get a pictured booklet or ask a plumber to do it,it is difficult to explain.
Than you refill the system,an open system can be easily filled with some anti corrosion agent-you simply pour some of it in to the feeder tank,the pump will mix it with the water.Bleed the radiators and keep filling up till the desired pressure is reached.(If the system is an open one than the feeder tank will overflow once it is full-somewhere at the outside of the roof you will see a small pipe sticking out between the roof tiles.If that starts to drip than you have enough pressure.)
With a closed system you have to fill in the anti corrosion agent in to the pipe system before you refill it with pressurised water from the mains,the tap(the desired pressure would be around 1 bar).Usually you would open the system somewhere upstairs,at a valve or so,and pour in the agent.Again,the action of the pump will be mixing it with the water.
Anti corrosion agent is sometimes not necessary,for example if you have underfloor heating with plastic pipes.Ask some one in the plumber shop.They will tell you as well how much of it you might need.
Good luck.

legend99
Very frequent poster

heinblood, i thought in a normal pipe compression joint connection you wrap the tape around the olive...have I been living a lie for the past 5 years???

I thougth it was
1. Cut at 90 degree.
2. Slide the cap you will tighten down the pipe.
3. put on the olive on the pipe.
4. wrap tape on the olive.
5. insert the pipe into the female side of the connection.
6. hand tighten the cap.
7. use ur plumbers spanner to tighten, without over tightening to damage the olive???

Should the tape be wrapped on the threads on the female side?

heinbloed1
Registered User
leak at the immersion

Hi legend99 !
As far as I understood PGD the leak is "at the immersion",
and as far as I know there are no compression pipes going straight into the immersion.Correct me if I am wrong,maybe the more modern immersions actually do have compression fittings going straight into them?

PGD
Frequent poster
Re: leak at the immersion

ehh I'm a bit lost but thanks anyway.

From reading some of the above I'm interested in finding out more about a condensing combination boiler (natural gas). We will need a complete re-plumb of the house we have just bought and this solution sounds ideal as it will give us back valuable space by removing the need for a hotpress (currently in the bathroom) and the two water tanks in the attic. Am I right to think that this will also reduce the amount of replumbing to be done by the plumber? I also like the idea of its efficiency and the fact that it only burns fuel as necessary.

However, I’ve heard that you cannot have a power shower with this system, and this is a pretty big factor for me. This would mean that we need to have very good water pressure – is there anyway I can get a measurement of this or can the plumber do this?

Also, a friend mentioned that Dublin City Council are opposed to condensing combi boilers and that they would possible prevent us from connecting it to the water mains – is this correct (house is in Crumlin? What are the concerns the council might have with this system?

I’d be interested in hearing feedback from a few others with a condensing combi boiler in place – what are the pros and cons etc.? how much did it cost? Has anyone purchased such a system from a UK based website, if so was there much saving and does the warranty cover it if it is installed in Ireland?