Key Post: Water - treatment systems

Has anybody used [broken link removed] to solve the scaling problem of hard water?

It seems to remove the scaling properties of the calcium & magnesium - but without removing the minerals themselves & is a lot cheaper than these tanks that add sodium to your water. I'm not in favour of the extra sodium in the water for my young child.

Can anybody recommend a solution to the hard water problem? Taste of the water is fine, but I hear I should act now to stop clogging of pipes, elements in dishwasher/washing machine/shower heads etc.

Re: Hard Water

We have very hard water and I looked into this a lot a couple of years ago.

I decided against the kind of system you're enquiring about. It seemed to me from what I read that there was no conclusive evidence available to suggest that those things were guaranteed to work well for everyone, nor was there any solid scientific basis to why they should work at all. Some vendors put forth some pretty woeful pseudo-scientific explanations that even I, with my mostly-forgotten physics and chemistry, could tell was quackery. Your mileage may vary, etc.

In the end I went for the system that uses the salt but health risks are not an issue as we also got a separate filtered drinking water tap that bypasses the softener and leaves in the calcium and magnesium and so on. It was dearer but it works very well.

Re: Hard Water

Can you provide some info on the system you installed, cost of system and tap filter and who installed? Would be interested to know.
Thanks

Re: Hard Water

The company are called [broken link removed] and are based in Galway.

The whole package (water test, softener, carbon filter system for drinking water, outdoor housing unit for the softener and installation) cost in the region of €1200. I could be out by a €100 or two either way - I'm at work and haven't the figure to hand. I'll check this at home later.

The salt works out at about about €12 a month, I think, but again, I'll have a look this evening.

It's a lot of money, but it has definitely made a huge difference to the quality of the water. Our kettle element was totally caked in calcium within a few weeks of our moving in, and one can only assume that the immersion, shower, pipes and radiators were no better. Plus, we were paying a lot for bottled water.

Re: Hard Water

Hi POBHD28,

Interesting that you had the softener installed outside. Did you have it installed after the house was built? Was there much mess made in the process?

I am trying to get the builder of my new house to make provision for it, in the course of construction, to be installed in the garage but I am afraid of being fleeced just for making the provision. Do you, or anyone else, know how much work is involved in this basic provision for a softener and how much it might cost?

GG

Re: Hard Water

Geegee,

I had it installed after the house was built.

I had the option of installing it under the sink if I wanted, but I chose not to as I didn't want to lose the cupboard space that it would have taken up.

The outside installation is very neat. The guy only had to drill a couple of holes through the wall to accomodate a couple of pipes and an electric cable and he did a grand job of sealing them. The other extras that the external installation required were the housing unit itself (a lockable plastic box) and a frost-stat system (basically a lightbulb attached to a thermostat that is set to come on if it's freezing).

Your best bet would be to talk to one of the companies that sell and install these things, to see if your proposed location would be suitable. Obviously, it would need to be close to the rising main and an electricity supply, but outside of that, I don't know what provisions would be necessary.

Re: Hard Water

Hi POBHD28,

Apparently it needs a waste pipe as it flushes itself out overnight. Do you have provision for this?

Re: Hard Water

You're right - it does. Since our softener is situated directly outside the kitchen sink, the waste pipe just feeds down the kitchen waste water drain.

Re: Hard Water

So, just to get this straight, as long as the rising main, power supply and drain are together that is all the provision needed.
Can I just ask:

Where did you take the power supply from and did this make a mess?
If it is softening the water as the main exits the ground, how is it possible to bypass your cold kitchen sink tap for drinking water purposes?

Thanks for the info.

GG

Re: Hard Water

As I said previously, your best bet is probably to talk to the vendors/installers of such systems.

As far as I can tell, access to the rising main, power supply and drain are all required but that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be together; you could probably run some sort of an outlet pipe some distance between your softener and the drain, for example.

We have a 2-gang power outlet just inside the wall for the dishwaher, so it was just a matter of drilling a small hole in the wall near this, passing the cable through, attaching a plug and sealing the hole around the cable. This hole and the hole for the pipes are both concealed behind the housing unit on the outside and behind the kitchen units on the inside, by the way. No mess.

Although the softener unit is located outside the house, its actual connection point into the water system is inside the house (hence the need for a hole for pipes) after the drinking water filter tap is branched off.

Hope this all makes sense.

Re: Hard Water

Yes it does, thank you for the detail.

Re: Hard Water

Whatever you do dont put it where it might freeze !

Re: Hard Water

Whatever you do dont put it where it might freeze !

Click to expand...

That's what the frost-stat system that I mentioned previously guards against.

Re: Hard Water

I also purchased a softener from ARQTECH in Galway, very pleased with unit and service.

As a follow on question...

Where are you buying your salt from? I get through a 25kg bag approx every 5 weeks. I try to buy from ARQTECH as they appear to be the best price, but they don't carry much stock so it can be hit and miss to get it there. I've been buying from a plumbers in Loughrea at 8.50 per bag. Are there better prices elsewhere?

Cheers

Re: Hard Water

I buy either from Joyce's in Headford (€8.40 a bag) or JV Cummins in Ballinrobe (€7.85 a bag), depending on where I'm passing. Not much use to you in Loughrea, though.

Re: Hard Water

Hi

I work for Pozzani at www.pozzani.co.uk

The electronic scale inhibitor does work most of the time(many people are using successfully) - we do give a 3 month no quibble money back guarantee which we do Honor.

On the budget side of solutions we also manufacture a scale/corrosion inhibitor (which adds a small amount of food grade scale inhibitor to the water supply). This doesn't soften the water but does prevent virtually all problems caused by scale. The only issue is it does need plumbing in.
See [broken link removed]

We do also manufacturer softeners. For a meter controlled softener, a dealkerlisation drinking water filter (for your kitchen sink) and carriage to Ireland the total is approximately 890Euros. We are based in the UK so obviously it is a bit dependent on current currency rates but it shouldn't alter that much.

See [broken link removed]
[broken link removed]

You can order online, it might not show you the carriage (for heavy European orders it says we will contact you with the total - but I believe it is about £70).

Any questions, I'm not too technical (IT guy) but we have very good staff here who can deal with any water treatment inquiries.

(Just as an aside we also do Twin Fluoride Filters for Sink installations - apparently quite an issue in Ireland).

Re: Hard Water

Just to add - The £70 carriage was for the softener/filter bundle. For filter systems/scale inhibitors it will be in the £5 to £30 range depending on the weight (it will calculate this online for you).

Sorry for any confusion.

Ian

Re: Hard Water

Murtaghs in Ashbourne do salt

They have both small grain salt and salt tablets formed into giant polo mints <edit> thats all tosh. It seems that they are now round tablets like big Rolos<end edit>. The large ones are very handy as they seem to go where you want them rather than end up on the floor. Also if the bag gets a little damaged they still stay in it.

Price in similar to yours. About 30euros buys 4 bags which lasts us about 4 months

Re: >>Hard Water

Some other posts

burkemg
Registered User
Treatment systems for hard water

anyone have any experience of getting a system installed that treats hard water ?

Recommend a solution/ supplier

Likely cost ?

Thanks

elderdog
Registered User
Water softener

Have had one for years !

Cant remember what it cost

Came from R S White Ltd ( they were in Donnybrook at the time. I think they moved from there.). See here for details
[broken link removed]

I guess there must be several other suppliers

Uses commercial salt - how much will depend on hardness of water and your water consumption. ( about a 25kg bag per month in our case ).

Remember that drinking water supply should be taken off before the softener input.

geegee
Local user
Water softener

has anyone had a water softener fitted? If so, with what results?

In a new spec. built house ( the builder will not fit a water softener) what provision, if any , needs to be made?

Henny Penny
Frequent poster
Water softner

... we got ours from an american company in Galway. Yes I would recommend having it installed ... didn't take long ... couple of hours ... shop around ... you need to put in rocksalt every month also.

rogermure
Registered User
Re: Water softner

There was a warning some years go and may still be important when using water that had been through a water softener in mixing baby milk replacer.
I don't remember exactly what the problem was but there was a health risk warning at the time.
I,m sure the supplier would know if you were to enquire.
there was a program on BBC and some newspaper articles about it at the time.

Roger

geegee
Local user
Water softener

Thanks for the replies again!

The builder won't fit it so what provision needs to be made for fitting it?

POBHD28
Registered User
Re: Water softener

We got a softener and drinking water filter system fitted in our house after we had moved in. There was no hassle with the installation and no special provision had been made during building. If there isn't enough space under the kitchen sink, the softener unit can be located and housed outside (we went with this option so we wouldn't lose the cupboard space in the kitchen).

I'd imagine it would be the same story for any modern house.

It was well worth the investment, by the way.


geegee
Local user
Re: Water softener

Has anyone gone down the RO (Reverse Osmosis) rather than DI (DeIonisation) route for water filtration and if so why?

Electronic water softeners

The water Hardness in my area is very bad(Descaling kettle once a week).I'm looking at getting in a softner so I don't need to worry about showers,washing machines etc.I'm being quoted 1350 for an electronic water softner(no plumbing or maintenance).Also no sodium salt which must be good for the blood pressure.Anyone any experiences.I really don't want to be filling up the softner with salts etc,and it's only the machinery I'm concerned about/