Literacy Standards : Irish Indo (Unison) Hits the nail on the head

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mo3art

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On their website in relation to the literacy of Irish students:

"This morning's reports said the assessment put together by some of the examiners of Junior Cert papers had concluded that literacy standards were in decline, particularly to ability to write coherent prose."
 
Re: Irish Indo (Unison) Hits the nail on the head

How many of those contribute to AAM I wonder............
 
Yeh I tink its the case that most poster's to aam dont bother to reread they're message's b4 they post them and they also do use alot of text spk and havent never learnd about punctuation r gramer what do u all think lol
 
Seriously, is there a distinction between the ability to compose effective prose and the abilty to spell and punctuate?

I know of people who are perfect at grammar, spelling and punctuation yet are unable to compose relatively simple prose.

aj
 
Sherman said:
Yeh I tink its the case that most poster's to aam dont bother to reread they're message's b4 they post them and they also do use alot of text spk and havent never learnd about punctuation r gramer what do u all think lol
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Too many vowels, Sherman...!

Ajapale — yes, I would agree that correct grammar, spelling and punctuation do not necessarily make for effective (i.e. clear?) prose. In fact, very often, the purpose behind using very grammatically precise, sophisticated language is to render the content more obscure for the majority of readers. Naturally, a sine qua non of 'good' writing is to eschew such obfuscatory tendencies. ;)
 
I think we do not fully comprehend the scale and extent of the literacy problem in this country. In a study by the dept of Education in 1997 it was revealed that 25% of the population were essentially illiterate.
 
Having discussed the changes and "dumbing" down of the curriculum for a lot of the LC courses with a teacher recently i think it is very worrying.
I noticed 10 years ago while trying (for 6 years) to learn German that it was so much more difficult because i did not have a barny regarding the structure of my own mother tongue english. I now find myself so embarrased when asked questions about english structure by my Spanish co-worker "whats that syntax" "past continuous" ?? etc. I don't have a breeze, but have a B2 in honours english.

Recently my niece in 2st class was found not to be able to read at her level, my sister spoke to a teacher who said that students are not supposed to be able to read unaided until maybe 2nd class, it was merely vocabluary that was concentrated on 'till then.:confused: How in God's name are children supposed to learn vocab if they cannot read confidently, if at all? Am i a mad to think bring back Ann and Barry and "reading homework" for Junior infants - like it was in "my day"??
 
nelly said:
. I now find myself so embarrased when asked questions about english structure by my Spanish co-worker "whats that syntax" "past continuous" ?? etc. I don't have a breeze, but have a B2 in honours english.
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I tried for a short period of time to help my partner to learn spanish (still no joy), and I was so surprised to find out he didn't know most of the grammatical terms. Fair enough when you are studying a foreign language you are taught that, but I had to deal with it as well to learn my own language, and I have to admit it was tought going. Only english speaking people I found out to know a bit of grammar are those doing a TFL course. I might have forgotten most of the grammar rules of Spanish (being here too long I think) but won't take me too long to get them back if needed be.
The problem lies in people not having any interest in speaking/writing propery, what for, if their message is understood by those receiving it?
 
I heard Ann got done for touting on Benburb Street - she told the filth that Barry was on the gear and she'd no choice,

I'm sure all the details will be in their latest book ;)

While I'm all for good standards of education, I have a certain sympathy for Tommy Tiernan's view on homework for tots ... "Homework???, I've got running around to catch up on ....).

I think the fundamental problem with Ireland's education system was that it was geared towards high academia - and if you weren't on that track then there was no time for you, you fell into the abyss.

With applied LC etc. hopefully things are coming around, maybe this is what is mean by "dumbing down". We'll always have the elite but everyone should be at a decent standard to get them through life.
 
Have a look at some of the grammar and spelling in the latest posts in 'The Great Financial Debates'
Normally I wouldn't be that bothered but in fairness it's not that hard to cut and paste a post into word for a quick check. Some of the posts are terribly careless and make for tough reading.
 
I teach French at third level and am regularly struck by the appalling standards of (sub)literacy I observe in some students. It's a high-points degree course, and they have to have Honours LC French and Irish to be admitted, yet many of them regularly misspell 'wendesday', 'grammer', etc. and seem never to have heard of the idea of capitalising the first word of a sentence, the first person pronoun 'I', placenames, etc. Don't even start me on the apostrophes, confusion of 'been/being', 'should of', etc.!

The first item on their reading list is a book called English grammar for students of French; there are Spanish/German versions available, too (assuming they can find 'there' way to the library, of course...)

The depressing part is that these are the language teachers of the future... :eek:
 
I think there are many people who don't get a proper grammar course until they start learning a foreign language. The best grounding for learning grammar is still Latin.
 
DrMoriarty said:
Tempora mutantur et nos mutamur in illis... ;)
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Maybe it's just me, but does your alleged location cast aspersions on your .... errr.... preferences?

Sorry, childish I know, but couldn't resist.;) (and this from a man masquerading as Betsy !!)
 
I'm not sure whether you're referring to my location ('Infrontofmycomputer') or my title..?

Quem dii odere, paedagogum fecere. Sapristi nabolis! ;)
 
DrMoriarty said:
I'm not sure whether you're referring to my location ('Infrontofmycomputer') or my title..?

Quem dii odere, paedagogum fecere. Sapristi nabolis! ;)
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Indeed it was your title, not your location.
 
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg. The
phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde
Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt
tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can
be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is
bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod
as a wlohe.


...... now I feel better for not being able to spell coectly sometimes!
 
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