Bidding & estate agent

On Tue I had offer of 388k on house, EA came back last night with offer of 391k from other bidder and said house would be sold last night (Thursday) so that was my last chance, I said I was no longer interested. This morning a friend of mine called EA re same house and was told the current bid is 388k (my last offer) and house would be on open viewing Saturday. I understand the EA wants to get the best price possible for the vendor, I'm selling myself and need to get the most I can but where does that leave me, I feel that there is no other bidder but don't know if there is anything I can do about it. Anyone have experience of this type of situation.

Re: Bidding & E agent

Ring the EA up. Tell him that a friend of yours rang and that the best offer was 388k (yours). Tell him that if this offer is not accepted by 5pm today that you are withdrawing this offer.
Let us know how you get on.

Re: Bidding & E agent

Somewhat similiar situation last week. EA told me after viewing an apartment that they had an offer of €395k (guide €390k xcess). I bid €398 the next day and within 2 hours it had risen to €405k, EA warbled on about the market moving etc etc.. and that there were 3 interested parties and i would have to go beyond 405k to secure it.. 7k in 2 hours seemed fancifull or maybe im too cynical!

Re: Bidding & E agent

Thank you for input. Just to update you, I gritted my teeth and didn't call, viewing another similar property on Monday. But, got a call from EA on first house, 15mins before open viewing fininshed today, says the other bidder withdrew offer and owner says I can have it for 390, I said my last bid was 388 and that I'll think about it, would it be ok if I get back to them Monday evening? EA says no problem. I think I was right all along, there was no bid at 391, I'll let them sit on it till late Monday when I know where I'm at with the other house. Hope all EA's aren't the same.

Re: Bidding & E agent

stick to your guns and see what the EA comes up with , if it was me i would have a bank draft from my lawyer for the deposit in my hand show it to the EA and watch the whites of his eyes . Hard cash is very difficult to refuse .

My own view is that all offers on property should be accompanied by a draft for the deposit and then there would be NO more phantom offers as the previous persons draft should be available for you to view .

mikeyny

Re: Bidding & E agent

I am afraid they hold the cards try for 389-390 this is expected , if you want then dont let a a few K stop you, dont bite of your nose despite your face, because if u miss this one same house comes on market for say 400K so this with your head and not your pride thinking your been done that is part of the whole process i,m sure you would try same on seeling your current home given the chance best of luck,

Re: Bidding & E agent

dodo said:

I am afraid they hold the cards try for 389-390 this is expected , if you want then dont let a a few K stop you, dont bite of your nose despite your face, because if u miss this one same house comes on market for say 400K so this with your head and not your pride thinking your been done that is part of the whole process i,m sure you would try same on seeling your current home given the chance best of luck,

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Thats some pretty bizarre logic right there - you've just pretty much proven that the EA is trying to swindle you out of a few grand, but sure you like the house so whats difference does a few grand make? If you were buying a car and the salesman tried to whack a few extra grand on top, but you like the car and its the last one in that colour would you just say ok and pay it?

Its clear theres no other bidder in this case so why oh why would you raise your bid from 388k? Tell the EA you 'will take it for 388k and not a penny more. Offer stands until 1pm tomorrow and on acceptance of the bid I will have a 5k deposit paid within 24 hours along with full details of my solicitor and mortgage broker'. Worst case there is actually another bidder, but guess what, the EA will still come back to you to beat whatever they offer, so offering a penny extra until that point is pure madness. People need to get tough with EA's, cos it seems even the new legislation wil do very little to stop this behaviour, which does seem to be very widespread.

The argument of 'sure you'd do the same when selling your house' doesn't cut it with me. Fraud is fraud, it just so happens that the property market is unregulated, which imo is crazy due to the vast sums involve. People go to jail for inflating company earnings/revenue predictions, and various other crimes in the stock market world. Trying to get someone to pay over the odds for a house by producing phantom bidders is the exact same as trying to fool the stock market with false information and should result in a similar punishment.

Re: Bidding & E agent

I would tell them that your bid of 388k stands until 5.00.
I would also tell them that this bid will REDUCE by €5k every day thereafter, so after 5.00 your bid is 383, after 5.00 pm tomorrow it is €378k etc.
the ea will think you are joking, make sure that he/she knows that you are not, get him to ring his client there and then.

Re: Bidding & E agent

If it was a car you could just go to the next dealer but with houses you may go to the next house or wait for one the same to come on the market for alot more than the few grand extra they wanted, this is the facts, you have not bought a house in recent years me is a thinking It is not PC in a solical way but when he is sitting in his new home in 5 Years time he will be glad he paid the extra, The sellers do want more and are chancing their arm but they are in the position to do so so my advice as an owner of a couple of places is to buy it

OhPinchy said:

Thats some pretty bizarre logic right there - you've just pretty much proven that the EA is trying to swindle you out of a few grand, but sure you like the house so whats difference does a few grand make? If you were buying a car and the salesman tried to whack a few extra grand on top, but you like the car and its the last one in that colour would you just say ok and pay it?

Its clear theres no other bidder in this case so why oh why would you raise your bid from 388k? Tell the EA you 'will take it for 388k and not a penny more. Offer stands until 1pm tomorrow and on acceptance of the bid I will have a 5k deposit paid within 24 hours along with full details of my solicitor and mortgage broker'. Worst case there is actually another bidder, but guess what, the EA will still come back to you to beat whatever they offer, so offering a penny extra until that point is pure madness. People need to get tough with EA's, cos it seems even the new legislation wil do very little to stop this behaviour, which does seem to be very widespread.

The argument of 'sure you'd do the same when selling your house' doesn't cut it with me. Fraud is fraud, it just so happens that the property market is unregulated, which imo is crazy due to the vast sums involve. People go to jail for inflating company earnings/revenue predictions, and various other crimes in the stock market world. Trying to get someone to pay over the odds for a house by producing phantom bidders is the exact same as trying to fool the stock market with false information and should result in a similar punishment.

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Re: Bidding & E agent

dodo said:

you have not bought a house in recent years me is a thinking

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fraid not. bought last March at a bargain price of 317.5k (will be worth 450k when renovations&extension are complete) by using the exact tactics I outlined above. Admittedly when we started out on the search we did behave like suckers, like many of the people I see posting on here, and increased our bids on other houses a few times in response to what we suspected were phantom bids. However, we never bid with the logic 'sure its only a few grand extra' - instead we asked 'how much is the house worth to us?'. We learned a lot through the couple of disappointments we experienced before we found the house we bought, and by the time that sale came around we knew just how to handle estate agents and so I controlled things rather than him say jump and us saying how high.

Admittedly the house needed extensive renovations so competition wasn't as intense as other houses, but we capitalised on them letting us know the owners needed to sell quickly. Rang up and put an offer 10k under the asking, told him it stood till tomorrow lunch and I had a cheque for 5k already made out. He rang back looking for ten grand more, I said absolutely not budging, he said he doubted they'd go for it but theyd think about it overnight. He rang back looking for 5k more to seal it, I said no chance and we were having a second viewing on another house that evening, though if it was to seal it there and then we'd go another 2.5k (we had agreed we would actually go another 10k), but if they weren't happy with this not to bother even ringing me back. Deal done 10 minutes later.

I'm not outlining this for self-congratulation - instead I'm trying to point out to ftb's out there that they need to try take control of the bidding process as much as possible, rather than let the EA think 'yep, I have them in the bag at 388k and they're gagging for it so I'll try every trick I know to get more out of them or someone else, and worst case they'll still be there waiting for me to fall back on that 388k'.

The more solid a stance you take, and the closer you hold your cards to your chest, the less inclined the EA will be to try take you for a fool, and the worst case is that you are actually up against a genuinely competitive bidder, in which case you'll still end up paying an increased amount, but at least then you'll be paying a genuine market price as opposed to a falsely inflated price.

Re: Bidding & E agent

I would agree with your approach OhPinchy, and things would probably be better if more people did the same. Unfortunately for most, house (home) buying is an emotional experience, which they only go through a few times in a lifetime, while the estate agent is wheeling & dealing day in and day out. Would be good if someone was boxing for the buyer, as well as for the seller.

Re: Bidding & E agent

Unfortunately I'm on my 5th (residential) house and as a result have a lot of experience dealing with horrible EA's. By and large I would like everyone else try to squeeze the best deal. However I would imagine that Dodo is talking about a home here and not an investment. I have bought homes for my family at both auctions AND sealed bids where obviously I was the person who went that little bit extra - EACH ONE WORKED OUT EXTREMELY WELL FOR ME and my family.

Dodo is happy to offer 388k.... and 1/4 of 1% will get him / her the house they want. In the long run it is NOTHING. My advice would be to pay the 2 grand and take yourself out of all the pain. Tell them 390k and you want contracts with your solicitor within 7 days!

best of luck!

Roy

Re: Bidding & E agent

You ever think of doing it for a career bidding on behalf of people?

OhPinchy said:

fraid not. bought last March at a bargain price of 317.5k (will be worth 450k when renovations&extension are complete) by using the exact tactics I outlined above. Admittedly when we started out on the search we did behave like suckers, like many of the people I see posting on here, and increased our bids on other houses a few times in response to what we suspected were phantom bids. However, we never bid with the logic 'sure its only a few grand extra' - instead we asked 'how much is the house worth to us?'. We learned a lot through the couple of disappointments we experienced before we found the house we bought, and by the time that sale came around we knew just how to handle estate agents and so I controlled things rather than him say jump and us saying how high.

Admittedly the house needed extensive renovations so competition wasn't as intense as other houses, but we capitalised on them letting us know the owners needed to sell quickly. Rang up and put an offer 10k under the asking, told him it stood till tomorrow lunch and I had a cheque for 5k already made out. He rang back looking for ten grand more, I said absolutely not budging, he said he doubted they'd go for it but theyd think about it overnight. He rang back looking for 5k more to seal it, I said no chance and we were having a second viewing on another house that evening, though if it was to seal it there and then we'd go another 2.5k (we had agreed we would actually go another 10k), but if they weren't happy with this not to bother even ringing me back. Deal done 10 minutes later.

I'm not outlining this for self-congratulation - instead I'm trying to point out to ftb's out there that they need to try take control of the bidding process as much as possible, rather than let the EA think 'yep, I have them in the bag at 388k and they're gagging for it so I'll try every trick I know to get more out of them or someone else, and worst case they'll still be there waiting for me to fall back on that 388k'.

The more solid a stance you take, and the closer you hold your cards to your chest, the less inclined the EA will be to try take you for a fool, and the worst case is that you are actually up against a genuinely competitive bidder, in which case you'll still end up paying an increased amount, but at least then you'll be paying a genuine market price as opposed to a falsely inflated price.

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Re: Bidding & E agent

can't agree with you more Oh Pinchy, you describe the way I have gone about buying my last two properties.

Re: Bidding & E agent

dodo said:

You ever think of doing it for a career bidding on behalf of people?

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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that's not you attempt at being smart - you'll find that doesn't go down too well round here.

I don't have as much time to post on here as I once did but do try and give advice when I think its needed (as payback for all I learnt from this site), and this area is one I feel strongly about as I think theres way too many ftb's out there being duped into spending more than they should by EA's using fraudulent measures.

At a time when property prices are at an all time high, 100% mortgages becoming widespread, ECB interest rates predicted to rise by many (useless and all as predictions are), we are more vulnerable to any drop in house prices than ever before. People who are paying over the odds for their house would be more vulnerable to negative equity than the rest of us so this is another reason to bid with your head and not your heart.

I'm seeing a big trend of people bidding based on how much the bank will lend them (which is more than ever before) and not based on what the house is worth. When an EA realises this they are likely to use it to their advantage so people need to get smart when dealing with EA's.

I agree that 2 grand in the long run is not significant in terms of how much you will pay back, but if its two grand down the drain simply because you've been taken for a sucker by an EA and you are essentially trumping your own bid by 2 grand I think you'd be mad not to stand up to the EA and call their bluff (again I stress that this is a low risk strategy cos the worst case is that there is another bidder and you will still get a chance to re-bid).

Re: Bidding & E agent

I don't think Dodo was being smart, i got the impression that it was a compliment!

Re: Bidding & E agent

Great advice here. I put a bid on a house yesterday of 317,500. It was the first bid and there was another viewing after me. The next guy bid 320,000. I got a call this morning to say tell me about the 320k bid so I bid 322K. There are a few more viewings planned for later this week.
The house is on the market for €320k. At the viewing the estate agent said that the sellers are hoping to gat close to €340k. It's a very nice house and the finish and decor is excellent. Any advise on where I should go now. I'm expecting to hear from the auctioneer in the next day or two to tell me it's gone up again. Any advice on what strategy I should take would be appreciated.

Re: Bidding & E agent

While I broadly agree with the thrust of Ohpinchy's argument, one key point to bear in mind is that the vendor of the house he bought was keen to move quickly, presumably because he was buying another place. I think that this is an important point to be borne in mind and one that should be ascertained by the seller on viewing.

It should be noted though that where they vendor may not be in a hurry (e.g in the case of an executor sale), they will most likely hold out for top dollar.

Re: Bidding & E agent

Take the compliment when it is given Ohpinchy,

When you make a claim say for your house it is always better using a broker as they can and do get a better claim amount than you would, so maybe having someone doing the bidding for you could really work, so dont blush just take the compliment

OhPinchy said:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that's not you attempt at being smart - you'll find that doesn't go down too well round here.

I don't have as much time to post on here as I once did but do try and give advice when I think its needed (as payback for all I learnt from this site), and this area is one I feel strongly about as I think theres way too many ftb's out there being duped into spending more than they should by EA's using fraudulent measures.

At a time when property prices are at an all time high, 100% mortgages becoming widespread, ECB interest rates predicted to rise by many (useless and all as predictions are), we are more vulnerable to any drop in house prices than ever before. People who are paying over the odds for their house would be more vulnerable to negative equity than the rest of us so this is another reason to bid with your head and not your heart.

I'm seeing a big trend of people bidding based on how much the bank will lend them (which is more than ever before) and not based on what the house is worth. When an EA realises this they are likely to use it to their advantage so people need to get smart when dealing with EA's.

I agree that 2 grand in the long run is not significant in terms of how much you will pay back, but if its two grand down the drain simply because you've been taken for a sucker by an EA and you are essentially trumping your own bid by 2 grand I think you'd be mad not to stand up to the EA and call their bluff (again I stress that this is a low risk strategy cos the worst case is that there is another bidder and you will still get a chance to re-bid).

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Re: Bidding & E agent

Fair enough, apologies for the overreaction Dodo, though I don’t quite understand what you mean about claiming through a broker.

Dino – I’d say so far so good for you – you’ve shown the estate agent you’re genuinely interested, now its time to show you are not a sucker. The seller and the EA do not dictate the value of a house – the market does that, and you are part of the market. Its early days in the bidding for this house so theres no need to rush in with an increased bid straight away. I’d tell the EA when you get news of being outbid something like ‘ah well, that’s a pity. Lucky for us we found another house we’re also interested in. When are they planning on closing this sale? Please be sure to get back to me before you finalise on this one.’.

If the house is likely to get a good few more bids theres no need for you to be involved until its nearing the end game. Its an EAs dream to have 3 or 4 bidders they can just get on the blower to and say ‘X has increased it by 2Gs. You’ll increase it by another 2Gs? I’ll let you know’.

Get a friend to ring every couple of days to see where its at and what the viewing schedule is. When its nearing wrap-up its time to get involved. If you stay involved through the whole thing and increase your bid every time the EA rings without much reluctance they know they have you around their finger and that you still don’t sound like you have reached your limit. Try and make every increased bid sound like its hurting you as they are less likely to think you will re-bid next time round. Also, the more people are involved in the early stages the higher the chance that one of them will try a major increase ‘to blow everyone out of the water’. Ask who you’re up against.

The bidding may well still reach a pretty high amount, but by leaving it late to get involved you are reducing the competition up to that point. Be careful to keep up-to-date by having others ring the EA and make sure you do get involved before it wraps up, but if you take this approach I see it as the lowest risk.

On the point made above about the seller’s circumstances this should be one of the first things you ask the EA when viewing – try suss them out and see are they desperate to get rid of it, or is it going through probate. You should be as well informed as possible (no better source than right here!) and ask all the right questions: reasons for leaving, ceiling price on the road, previous planning applications, freehold or leasehold, any structural surveys previously conducted? All these should factor in the value you place on the house, but they’ll also make the EA realise you are well clued in, so they’ll be less inclined to play their notorious games.