Duke of Marmalade
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So there you have it, we are to blame for those poor fellas forced into robbery and murder. And what does "as we understand criminality" mean?Last paragraph in VB's IT opinion today said:
So there you have it, we are to blame for those poor fellas forced into robbery and murder. And what does "as we understand criminality" mean?Last paragraph in VB's IT opinion today said:I am not saying people do not have responsibility for their own actions. I am saying that a great deal of criminality, as we understand criminality, is derived in large part from the sordid inequality we ordain to persist.
So there you have it, we are to blame for those poor fellas forced into robbery and murder. And what does "as we understand criminality" mean?
So there you have it, we are to blame for those poor fellas forced into robbery and murder. And what does "as we understand criminality" mean?
Complainer, the human condition is unequal. The grand Soviet experiment to deny that reality failed miserably more than 20 years ago. In our society we have universal education (Vinnie bemoaned in his article that not everyone goes to Blackrock College). We have universal health care. Unfortunately in the nature of the human economic condition we still have unemployment, at present far too much. But then we have the most generous social protection regime in the world funded by foreign official cheap borrowing.
We do indeed have universal education and health care. We also have huge inequalities in education. We have huge differences in class sizes. We have huge differences in access to technology. We have huge differences in access to grinds to bump up the CAO points required to access 3rd level. We have huge differences in access to essential early interventions like speech therapy for children with autism and children with Downs Syndrome - if the parents can't afford to pay for the therapies, the development opportunities are lost forever. We have huge differences in access to healthcare, as evidenced by the approx 50% of us who pay for private health insurance compared to 15% in the UK, because we know that people die for lack of insurance here.
But seriously, why do you think that much of the population of Mountjoy comes from a small number of Dublin postcodes? Is this some huge genetic coincidence, or what?
So what is your bestist country in the world? Norway? Switzerland? Let's call it Utopia. I'll bet Utopia has its murderers and robbers. And I also bet they source from the deprived sections of that Utopian society. In the words of Basil Fawlty that's stating the bleeding obvious. Does it mean society is to blame or those few who chose robbery and murder?But seriously, why do you think that much of the population of Mountjoy comes from a small number of Dublin postcodes? Is this some huge genetic coincidence, or what?
But seriously, why do you think that much of the population of Mountjoy comes from a small number of Dublin postcodes? Is this some huge genetic coincidence, or what?
I am not sure what point you are making. I thought you were making the point that serious crime tends to source from deprived sections of society, which is a Basil Fawlty bleeding obvious.But seriously, why do you think that much of the population of Mountjoy comes from a small number of Dublin postcodes? Is this some huge genetic coincidence, or what?
It's an interesting point. And it shows that in a modern developed economy it is resentment of others rather than absolute deprivation which drives a tiny minority to serious crime. It is quite some time since anyone in this country had to turn to crime in order to survive.Surely deprivation was more widespread, almost universal even, from the 20's up until the 60's - ok there was crime but if deprivation was the key thing underpinning it Ireland should have been more or less ablaze for those decades.
I didn't hear Vinnie make excuses for anyone. I heard him asking important questions about the causes of crime. I'm a bit confused about why some people choose to take great offence at such questions.There is no excuse for murder and serious crime in the current state of our society, imperfect as it is and as it always will be. Vinnie made the excuse at a terribly insensitive time.
If I recall the stats from The Spirit Level correctly, the US is way more unequal that Ireland or UK, in terms of income inequality. The Nordic countries and (I think) Japan were most equal, and had a strong correlation to lower crime rates.It's all a bit relative I suppose. Is our society more unequal than others? More unequal than the UK less unequal than the US.
I haven't blamed anyone for anything. I've just asked an important question, about why crime is more prevalent in deprived areas. Why do some people get so uppity about asking some questions?So what is your bestist country in the world? Norway? Switzerland? Let's call it Utopia. I'll bet Utopia has its murderers and robbers. And I also bet they source from the deprived sections of that Utopian society. In the words of Basil Fawlty that's stating the bleeding obvious. Does it mean society is to blame or those few who chose robbery and murder?
Never heard that nugget about the Coates before - very interesting, and indeed everybody does have options and choices. But everybody doesn't have the same options, or more specifically, everybody doesn't have access to a basic level of housing, education, healthcare.everyone in this country has options, choices...some decide to go the criminal route (both blue and white collar) and some decide to go the same route as 99% of the population and play it straight, have a job, a quiet family life.
The Coates brothers being the perfect example....1 set up the Westies gang, the other became an Immunologist in Trinity college.
I haven't even started complaining yet. I'm just asking questions. You seem to be trying to twist my questions. Can we just stick to the question I asked - why do most of the inhabitants of Mountjoy come from a small number of Dublin postcodes.I am not sure what point you are making. I thought you were making the point that serious crime tends to source from deprived sections of society, which is a Basil Fawlty bleeding obvious.
But maybe you are observing that deprived sections of society tend to be geographically concentrated in a small number of areas. I'm afraid that in a free society where there is a level of economic inequality there will always be a tendency for economic segregation in housing. Only a Soviet system could hope to quell that human instinct.
Or maybe you are asking why is it that children of deprived parents tend to be deprived themselves. Some of it is nature (genetic) for sure. In a pure meritocracy the reasons would be 50% genetic and 50% random. But in our society for the most part I agree that it is environmental and cultural. Again only a Soviet style system can separate children from their parents and bring them all up "equally" in the same environment.
Complainer, perhaps you could clarify which of these points you are complaining about.
It would be interesting to get a historical analysis. It's not an area I know much about. I wonder if crime was really reported and tracked in the 50s and 60s the way it is now. And drugs might indeed explain the explosion in crime rates, but it doesn't explain the geographic localisation - why does so much of Dublin's drug crime come from a small number of Dublin postcodes?Surely deprivation was more widespread, almost universal even, from the 20's up until the 60's - ok there was crime but if deprivation was the key thing underpinning it Ireland should have been more or less ablaze for those decades. I think drugs is probably the new factor and the biggest reason why those postcodes filled Mountjoy.
why crime is more prevalent in deprived areas.
But everybody doesn't have the same options, or more specifically, everybody doesn't have access to a basic level of housing, education, healthcare.
We house people in Fatima Mansions, with excrement coming up the drains into their houses, and then we wonder in amazement at the high crime rate in the area.
why do most of the inhabitants of Mountjoy come from a small number of Dublin postcodes.
why does so much of Dublin's drug crime come from a small number of Dublin postcodes?
And drugs might indeed explain the explosion in crime rates, but it doesn't explain the geographic localisation - why does so much of Dublin's drug crime come from a small number of Dublin postcodes?
But seriously, why do you think that much of the population of Mountjoy comes from a small number of Dublin postcodes? Is this some huge genetic coincidence, or what?