Serious Defeciencies in Public Health System (esp A&E).

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amtc

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My dad unfortunately collapsed last night and was brought to a Dublin hospital through A&E.

Although he is feeling better, the treatment has been appalling.

He has been told he will have to stay in for a week or so. Although my parents have private health insurance because he came in through A&E it's public.

Now after 28 hours he is still on a trolley. The hospital is full of very elderly patients - the cubicle next to my dad has a 99 year woman who is completely incontinent and the urine was on my dad's floor when I saw him today. At least he has a cubicle as the one nurse who I spoke to who actually listened pointed out a man who had been on a trolley for a week in a corridor! The first thing my dad was told - out of the ambulance - was to take off any valuables such as his watch as they had breakins. Then he asked for a pillow to sit up on the trolley this morning and they had run out (the answer I got was 'they are like golddust'! I had to go and buy one. Last night he slept for 30 minutes and because on a trolley you slip down it a nurse rapped his feet and told him to sit up.

I have had a back operation a few weeks ago and can't stand. I asked for a chair and the porters who were playing games on an iPad said it was against protocol. There were five stools behind the reception desk empty. I ended up getting an empty bin and turning it upside down to sit down. My dad didn't even get a glass of water today, he is on no medication is not required to fast. When I checked the machine on the wall, he actually wasn't hooked up anything as they were waiting on an ultrasound reading. Eventually my mum got our GP to get the results through a contact as this was 25 hours after, but noone told us or my dad. I found a cobweb on it.Went to get a sandwich and tea from the shop and they tried flogging me a hat and scarf!

He's more stressed about being there rather than the collapse.

Parking is 2.20 a hour. There is very limited public transport. This is a site that was rumoured to be the National Children's Hospital contender.
 
Nothing of which you have written would surprise me one bit. (Have a look at my Beaumont thread - and I was very circumspect on there)

Advice, stay with your dad as much as possible and try and take care of him and keep at them. Those who shout loudest, ie become an irritant to them, get seen first so as to get them out of the way. By the standards I have abroad I would consider Ireland third world.

I feel very sorry for what you have to see and more importantly for what your dad has to live through.
 
It's a terrible indictment on our health service that I'm sure pretty much every reader of this thread got as far as 'took my father to A&E' and knew what was coming next. That is mine and my husband's biggest concern living in Ireland - having to take one of our parents to A&E because experiences for older people there seem to be universely appalling. It sickens me to think about the amount of money spent on health in this country and yet old people live in fear at the prospect of a trip to A&E to be made better.
 
amtc said:
My dad unfortunately collapsed last night and was brought to a Dublin hospital through A&E.

Although he is feeling better, the treatment has been appalling.

He has been told he will have to stay in for a week or so. Although my parents have private health insurance because he came in through A&E it's public.
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You should still have been offered the choice of going private or public, the difference being that, if your father's insurance entitles him to a private room, and there is one available after he is admitted, he should get it. His treatment will be the same though ! It's also in the hospital's interest to treat your father as a private patient !!
 
orka said:
It sickens me to think about the amount of money spent on health in this country and yet old people live in fear at the prospect of a trip to A&E to be made better.
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+1m. It's a mess beyond repair IMO and unlikely to change given the position of the vested interests. Not being flippant & absolutely no offence meant at all to the OP but the phrase "No country for old men" seems apt.
 
I feel awful for you OP. If there is any chance at all of taking your Dad out and bringing him to a fully private clinic like the Beacon or the Hermitage that his health insurance would cover, then do it. The problem with trying to go private in a public hospital is the lack of beds and the long wait to decide what is to be done at all. I agree with Bronte, the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

I posted recently about my father in laws horrendous experience in a public A&E. One poster in particular was very aggressively questioning everything I said and insinuating that I was lying or being hysterical. I wasnt. He left after 8 hours and still hadnt seen anyone except triage and was in pretty much the same conditions you describe except we were not allowed into him. He saw his GP later that afternoon and was admitted privately by one of his consultants for investigation the next week.

I have seen my father in law become more ill after the stress of a public A&E visit - so do keep an eye that the stress is not too much.
 
Another night on the trolley.

He was told bad news at 11pm last night without any relative there. Couldn't get in touch until my mam went down this morning.

Because of the nature of the news the answer we got was that he needed specialist equipment should anything happen which would only be availble in A&E or ICU.

I'm off to do battle.
 
Thanks to all for their good wishes....

...the point re going private is appreciated but my dad (who's 74) is on my mum's policy and she retires in 2 weeks and the renewal date is next week she decided to cancel it, having had a full MOT and hip replacement this year.

Finally got a bed tonight for father, mind you by this stage he is so drugged up that he started an impromptu sing song in a (predominantly female - which I thought was odd ) ward. Accomplished this by much batting of eyelashes at bed manager and making myself a nuisance to doctors. Desperate times call for desperate measures!!!

On the way out, met my uncle on the way with his mother so he asked me to deploy similar measures. Bed within 2 hours, across from my dad.

All's well that ends well, now on with treating the clots in veins and arteries.
 
As long as the Heath Service is run for the benifit of the people who work there things will never change.
 
Could they take out a new policy or change their decision and renew?The waiting time to be eligible to claim is waived if you had an equivalent policy within the last 13 weeks. If they did it soon there might not even be a break in cover.
 
Thanks for the suggestions.

It appears to be even more complex than I thought -

- Dad after being on ward ( for one night) was sent home, and has to present himself daily for injections. Stupidly we took that as being discharged, but it's simply because he lives within 10 minutes of the hospital (this is the public bit - right leg)

- He also has a melanoma on his other leg, treated through the Hermitage.

VHI will only cover one leg.

So we're in bizarre situation where

Right leg - Public (blanchardstown)
Left leg - Private (Hermitage)

Meanwhile mother and I are practically running a transport system!

Feel free to close - just wanted to highlight the stupidity.
 
What has happened to Amtc's dad appears to be the norm and not the exception. I have been a victim to A+E's system also and it was not a good experience.

The problem did not start yesterday, it has been active for many years and little or no improvement happened since. I am sick of listening to Hospital Hierarchy advising that things are going to change for the better. The things changed alright, but for the worse.

I am not convinced that the problems are unfixable. Afterall, our population is relatively small. The UK has a population many times larger than ours and their NHS seems to be the envy of people here.

Somebody suggested vested interests above as the cause of the problem. If this is the case (and I am not arguing against the suggestion) the vested interests situations need to be attacked. Can anybody say who or what these vested interests are and how their interests are manifested?

[For the record:- The NHS system in UK offers GP visits, hospitalisation, prescriptions for £10.00 per year]
 
amtc said:
- Dad after being on ward ( for one night) was sent home, and has to present himself daily for injections. Stupidly we took that as being discharged, but it's simply because he lives within 10 minutes of the hospital (this is the public bit - right leg)

- He also has a melanoma on his other leg, treated through the Hermitage.

VHI will only cover one leg.

So we're in bizarre situation where

Right leg - Public (blanchardstown)
Left leg - Private (Hermitage)

Meanwhile mother and I are practically running a transport system!

.
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Bonkers, when I read that I thought it was beyond bonkers. Like Leper said could we analyse it to figure out what exactly is going on. And to see in whose benefit it is to keep this crazy situation.

Why does the VHI only cover one leg?

Why does your dad have to be treated in two separate hospitals? Why doesn't the Blanchardstown hospital (name please) treat the melanomia, or do they not have a facility for that? How would he travel to hospital if he had no family. Would the public system, or the VHI cover taxi's?
 
Bronte said:
How would he travel to hospital if he had no family. Would the public system, or the VHI cover taxi's?
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They probably would have kept him in if this was the case, although he would be expected to make his own arrangements re The Hermitage.
 
The VHI plan the op's father is in only covers specific outpatient procedures by the looks of it.
 
Just wanted to make it clear that I have no complaint about the standard of medical care in Connolly Hospital - just the lack of joined up thinking.

My dad's fairly together but only that Mam and I were there we communicated the full history. I feel sorry for those who don't have that support.

My issue is with the administrators. First and most important event was to print off labels and stick them on lots of folders. Walk round carrying folders and generally look important. As I said my only real issue was not having anywhere to sit (as I had two discs removed a month ago).

Why one leg private/one public? One was referral by GP and one through A&E. That said, once you got into the system the standard of care was the same. But you'd have to be clued in. And have someone fighting your corner.
 
amtc said:
My issue is with the administrators. First and most important event was to print off labels and stick them on lots of folders. Walk round carrying folders and generally look important. As I said my only real issue was not having anywhere to sit (as I had two discs removed a month ago).

Why one leg private/one public? One was referral by GP and one through A&E. That said, once you got into the system the standard of care was the same. But you'd have to be clued in. And have someone fighting your corner.
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The administrative issue:- (a) Labels are printed off to speed up the system. If they were not printed they would have to be hand written. There are many labels to be printed off per hospital chart (your father's history while there).

(b) Your father's previous hospital history must be obtained fairly fast. Otherwise, the medical staff cannot treat your parent fully. Remember they are liable to prosecution if they mistreat the patient. It is the administrative staff which sources the hospital chart.

(c) Administrative Staff must move around A+E to seek information about various patients and not just your father.

(d) Administrative Staff work Reception also. Please be aware they are subject to quite a lot of abuse (see the signs) and people tend to attack them rather than the Medical Staff.

(e) The Medical Staff and the patients need the support of the administrative people for various tasks. Remember Medical Staff do not want to do administrative work.

Please dont blame the Administrative staff or the Medical staff. It does not stand up and none of them are scurrying about trying to look important. Please retract.

2. The one leg private one leg public issue might be at the core of all this. This was not caused by the administrative staff. When you are aiming your gun, please ensure you aim it at the right people.
 
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Leper said:
(d) Please dont blame the Administrative staff or the Medical staff. It does not stand up and none of them are scurrying about trying to look important. Please retract.
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So why couldn't I get a chair when several available? Three weeks after getting two discs out I have to stand while the porters stand outside smoking, on their ipads?

Was specifically told that legs in different systems were not an issue,
 
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