Anyone else get a letter

Got a letter in the post today for a rented house.

I assume the details came from either the PRTB or the NPPR crowd.

I reckon it was a mistake to sign up for that too.

Nothing for my own place.

Anyone else get any letters.

The carrot is pay 114 now or price will rise month on month.

I have made own mind on not paying out of principal. So I am not looking for opinions on the right or wrong of my position.

I am curious to what people reckon will happen next?

We have to pay our taxes. Otherwise the country will slowly come to a halt.

If I thought the gov wouldn't waste the money and that it would make a difference I would happily pay.

A TD owes how much in VAT tackle him first.

Voting machines are being scrapped after very generous storage contracts.

Previous leaders of the country cheated us no one pays back a penny or looses their pensions.

Bankers Bankers Bankers been said to death.

1 Councillor convicted of taking back handers.
Only 1

I said I had made my mind up.
This is not a tax this is a household charge.
The gov should not have given us the choice to pay.

Just continue to pillage our pay.
PAYE
PRSI
Social charge

Give me a break.

Frank said:

I am curious to what people reckon will happen next?

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You will probably just get a similar reminder every year nothing more, but at some stage admittedly maybe many years’ time your house will be sold or ownership transferred, the government will not only then get payment but they will also get Late Payment Fees and Late Payment Interest which at that stage will be substantial.

I have paid mine, I didn’t like paying it, but I reckon those that don’t pay will pay a lot more than me in the long run.




What happens if I don't pay or don’t pay on time?
An owner of a residential property who does not pay a Household Charge or an instalment thereof by the due date will be subject to (1) LATE PAYMENT FEES and (2) LATE PAYMENT INTEREST
(1) LATE PAYMENT FEES



The late payment fee to apply in the case of a Household Charge paid:

• not later than 6 months after the due date, is 10% of the amount outstanding;
• later than 6 months and not later than 12 months after the due date, is 20 % of the amount outstanding; or
• later than 12 months after the due date, is 30 % of the amount outstanding.

(2) LATE PAYMENT INTEREST
Late payment interest of 1% per month or part thereof will apply to unpaid amounts.
Furthermore, both the €100 charge and any accumulated late payment fee will be a charge against the property concerned and will continue to be such for twelve years after the charge or late payment penalties concerned became due. Any Household Charges or late payment penalties due on a residential property will have to be discharged, in full, before a transfer or sale of the property can be completed.

https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk15

I have got the same letter by the looks of it, also mentioning 114 euro to pay now. I actually started a thread about it yesterday, if you took the time to have a look, my thread is just below this thread

The difference in my case is that I have already PAID this charge, but they sent me a letter anyway! Or more exactly, I chose the option to pay by direct debit, have paid half of the instalments on time by the time they sent me the letter! Today the 3rd instalment for 25 euro was debited, as scheduled.

The crappy incompetents must have got my details from NPPR database, as I have been paying NPPR charge since it was introduced, not from PRTB, as PRTB registration is in my husband's name, and this letter is addressed to me, not my husband.

I think it was not a mistake to register and pay NPPR charges, as the penalties are too steep for non payment, I believe a lot of people are going to be totally ruined financially over the years for non payment of NPPR charge, a small charge of 200 euro per year can quickly run into tens of thousands and counting after several years of non payment. I saw on another thread here, that it's impossible to part pay NPPR charge, if you didn't pay, you have to come up with the whole amount, to stop insane penalties clocking up.

I think the penalties for non payment of Household charge are a bit less steep, but even still, I am not sure it's worth not paying.

You will probably just get a similar reminder every year nothing more, but at some stage admittedly maybe many years’ time your house will be sold or ownership transferred, the government will not only then get payment but they will also get Late Payment Fees and Late Payment Interest which at that stage will be substantial.

In view of the fact that they seem to be sending these letters to landlords on NPPR database regardless of whether they are paying their Household charge or not, I do wonder if I am going to be harassed by these letters in future despite paying the charge.

As a compliant taxpayer, I am in favour of all measures taken in an effort to get everybody else to comply with the law.

I got no letter; I didn't need one.

what is in NPPR, is this another tax

It is a tax on a house you own that you have the cheek not to live in.

regvw said:

what is in NPPR, is this another tax

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https://www.nppr.ie/

Padraigb said:

As a compliant taxpayer, I am in favour of all measures taken in an effort to get everybody else to comply with the law.

I got no letter; I didn't need one.

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I didn't need a letter either, as I PAID, but got the letter anyway. As far as I am concerned, this is a waste of my money - part of what I paid goes on letters to intimidate me and other compliant taxpayers, along with non-compliant ones. Why bother to cross reference those on NPPR database with those on Household charge database, and send the letters only to those who didn't pay? Why it's much easier to send the letters without bothering to check? After all, if people paid, it will do no harm to intimidate them anyway, right? Just to show them who is the boss?

Maybe you didn't get the letter because you are not on NPPR database? Or because your property is not in the Dublin City Council area? (that's who sent me the stupid letter). Or they send the letters arbitrarily, to a sample of the population, to see what the effect of this intimidation will be?
No idea, but it doesn't make me "comply with the law", as I already do that. It disgusts me. And shows that those who get our money are a bunch of incompetents who probably waste most of this money if they don't even know who paid them and who hasn't.

By the way, the 3rd direct debit payment has now come out of my bank account, as scheduled. It's right there on their database, but I won't be surprised if I get another moronic letter.

And, by the way, such incompetence also means that those who didn't pay will be far less likely to pay now, once they know that they are not singled out for non payment, but rather the letters are send out regardless of payment.

I did not get this letter but if I do I will ignore it and all the follow on letters until they realise I have paid. I will even let it go to court. They will probably pass some piece of legislation making that type of action an offence. Something like wasting some incompetent officials time. Everyone that has paid should just ignore the letters and see how far they take it. You cannot be fined or even reprimanded in anyway.

Dermot, kudos to you for being prepared to take a stand, even all the way to court. I'll admit I don't want to take it that far, especially considering that I live outside of Ireland and having to deal with a court in Ireland would be a real pain. I have decided to ignore the first letter and see if any more crap will arrive in future, then I'll think about what to do, if it happens.

It's VERY galling, having paid and then to be treated like this. The stupid letter begins with "it has come to our attention that you may be liable for the Household charge" bla-bla-bla. This is really stupid - I am on their own database!!! With all my payment details up to date, but the morons not thinking it necessary to check!!! It's insulting to compliant taxpayers like myself, while the non compliant ones can now realise what a joke these letters are!

They want me to RING them if I paid, no option of sending a letter or emailing (though there are postal and email contact details on the Household charge website, but not on the letter). No return address, just the words "Dublin City Council". They basically want me to do the work for them, letting them know I paid, because they can't be bothered to check their own database. How stupid is that?!

To be honest, I can not understand why the government has set up two separate databases - for NPPR charge and for Household charge - instead of having one website and database for both? Just to create more confusion and more jobs for incompetent officials? Why are two charges even needed, why not have one charge, set at different rates for owner-occupiers and non-owner occupiers? Stupidity and incompetence, that what I think, all paid for with other money.

Frank said:

I have made own mind on not paying out of principal.

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Have you considered paying out of interest?

Some of you have decided not to pay the household charge and the argument for and against that has been done to death so I will not repeat it.

Some of you have decided to pay the charge but have received a letter which is admittedly annoying. This could be due to incompetence as you have suggested but it could be due to one of many other reasons also such as genuine error, duplicate entries on the databases, mismatch in the formatting of the multiple databases that are being referenced etc etc.

So having received the letter you could ignore it and allow them to continue to send letter after letter until finally they get legal and then tell them on the steps of the court that you had actually paid all along. This would give you a bit satisfaction but would incur enormous cost on the public purse.

Or you could just ring them and tell them you paid.

Does that about sum it up?

This could be due to incompetence as you have suggested but it could be due to one of many other reasons also such as genuine error, duplicate entries on the databases, mismatch in the formatting of the multiple databases that are being referenced etc etc.

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"Many other reasons" basically amounts to the same, that is, incompetence.

"Genuine error" excuse is laughable - what about those who don't pay through "genuine error", will their fines and interest be forgiven? Don't think so. Of course, it's only Joe the Public who gets hit with huge interests, fines, penalties, charges etc. When the government screws up, it's "a genuine error". My details are all on their database, I can see them, why can't they? Because they are incompetent, as simple as.

Paying as required, then receiving intimidating letters, then having to meekly go ring them, pay for the call, probably waste time on hold, deal with some incompetent bozo (and maybe having to ring them again, due to another "genuine error" on the part of the poor dears) ... all for the "public good", hmmmmm... I am not really so inclined. If people let themselves be trampled all over like that, there is just going to be more incompetence and waste of taxpayers' money. The morons will be encouraged to push their own duties onto the public - why bother checking payment details if you can just threaten people, and they'll do it for you.

I am not really inclined to escalate the matter all the way to court, but if somebody does, I applaud them. A fiasco like that might show up the incompetence and waste going on in public sector and might just possibly result in something being done about it. Lumping it will just result in more of the same.

Greta,,Brilliant summary of the real situation,,,,Its a joke,but its not even funny.

Read your comment 3cc. You have a point but so do we who are getting letters and have paid and given correct and accurate details to them and they have issued receipts for same with the correct details. I did this on line so as to do all of the work for them. I have paid, I have put it on the computer for them, The computer has returned a correct receipt for this. They are also availing of the Croke Park Agreement which has deemed them to be very efficient otherwise they would have to take a further cut. I will definitely let the Judge here give them a piece of his mind which he will. I will be able to make my own case.

Greta - I accept that it is possible, maybe even likely, that some of those involved in the administration of the household charge are not fully competent. But it would be reasonable to admit that there may also be other reasons. Not to do so would be to take a very narrow and unsubstantiated view. I imagine that if you were not very happy with the charge in the first place, it would be nice to have the big bad incompetent civil service/government as the object of your ire. If the purpose of your post is to vent frustration, then you are doing it and very well. On the other hand, if the purpose of your post is to make a reasoned balanced criticism of the collection of the household charge then you have fallen short.

Dermot - I agree completely with you that you have a valid point. If you have paid, you should not receive a letter. Whoever sent the letter has definitely messed up. It is clearly completely their fault and not yours. I just wonder if the course that is being proposed is a proportional response. I suggest that if this matter came before the courts, a judge would find that a letter had been sent when it should not; he/she may even find that this was the result of a lack of competence but there is no suggestion that a letter was sent deliberately or out of malice. The court could also find that your refusal to respond to the letter was vexatious and malicious.

It is difficult to imagine any circumstances in which it would be justifiable to put the public purse to unnecessary (in this case significant) cost just in order to feel you have made a point.

3CC said:

The court could also find that your refusal to respond to the letter was vexatious and malicious.

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I think this is rubbish and Id imagine the judge would be in favour of the good citizen who had paid their household charge in the first place. In these straightened times the cost of a phone call to a government department where you get put on hold and passed from incompetent to incompetent might be too much for some people. Why not allow the option of a letter or an email?

Intimidating people by letter who actually made the payment is not likely to cause any judge to think that the person being intimidated is vexatious and malicious because they didnt bother sorting it out at their own cost and to suggest so is simply scaremongering.