Problem tenant wont quit, worried I might lose house

Apologies for the long post, situation a bit complicated, but here are the facts:

A new tenant moved into my house six weeks ago. A few days after he moved in, the bank informed me of an increase to the mortgage (don't want to get into the details of the mortgage, but basically I expected some increase but not an increase of this size).

I can't afford to rent the house with the new mortgage (I don't have the money to make up the shortfall) so have to sell the house.

Figured the best thing to do was to put up the house for sale immediately and let the tenant know the score as soon as possible, rather than wait until the new mortgage kicked in.

Met the tenant about a week after he moved in, told him the situation. I felt it was fairest thing to return his deposit and month's rent in full so he could get a new place without being out of pocket. He seemed understanding. To keep it official, I gave him 28 days notice in writing anyway, which he was fine with, and reckoned he'd have a new place sorted out in a couple of weeks. Didn't register with prtb as figured a few days tenancy didn't count (previous tenants have been registered).

The next day, he demanded a large sum of money to move out. When I declined, he said he'd smash everything in the house if I didn't pay. When I explained that if I had that much money, I wouldn't have to sell, he said he'd wreck the house so badly that I'd never be able to sell it. This went back and forth for about an hour, and eventually he seemed to accept that I genuinely didn't have the money he was looking for (not that his actions would be ok if I did have it--it's still extortion or whatever).

The "For Sale" sign keeps disappearing from the house, and the auctioneer reports aggressive behaviour from tenant whenever he calls to house (these visits are arranged by me with tenant in advance, so don't understand what's going on there). I should point out that tenant has never physically threatened me, although he had a few of his mates in the room when he demanded the payoff money (but no direct threats to me).

We've met and spoken several times, and each time he tells me he's moving out in a few days, and then changes his mind. The 28-day notice period expired last week. He says he'll move out over the weekend, but I don't expect that to happen. Obviously selling the house while all this is going on is pretty difficult (not that it would be a piece of cake if the house was empty, but it would definitely be easier).

I really don't want to have to get the guards involved (don't want bad feelings) or get a solicitor involved (can't afford it), but am realizing that this guy may never move out until forced to do so—by the time that happens (I've read all the eviction posts) the bank will probably have repossessed the house anyway.

[FONT=&quot]If anyone has any helpful suggestions, I'd really appreciate it.[/FONT]

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

Get you registration into the PRTB ASAP (€140 as it's late).

Yes they can be useless & pointless....but you won't be able to deduct the mortgage interest paid without this, especially as it looks like it could drag on.

Have you followed all the correct steps, notice in writing, correct duration etc? I wouldn't worry too much about his bad feelings.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

sam h said:

Have you followed all the correct steps, notice in writing, correct duration etc?

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Yes, 28 days notice given in writing a week after he moved in. I believe 28 days is the correct duration for anything less than 6 months.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

Did the tenant not have references ?

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

You have to be very careful here. If you're lucky he will move out at the weekend. If he doesn't I would do everything to make his life as unpleasant as possible but always keeping within the law. You will find that going to the gardai will be of no use to you. But I would make a complaint to the gardai of his threat to wreck the house. A record of your complaint on this may be needed by you later but I agree that you should register with the PRTB and also start a case against the tenant based on the threats and non payment of rent etc. The tenant that made such an abusive threat to you should be barred from renting property, it is despicable behaviour. I hope you have all utilities transferred into his name.

In case he doesn't move soon you should meet with your bank and try and reschedule your loan repayments.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

Go to the police station today and make a report and give the person's name and any other details you have. Report that he has threatened to smash up the place. And has tried to extort money off you.
In the event that he does do extensive damage at least they know who did it. If he does it and you haven't reported him threatening to do it in advance, you can't prove it was him that did it.
So get that report in now. The gardai may have some advice for you on how to handle it from their own experience.

You can go to Citizens Advice for free legal advice so you know where you stand legally.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

when he is out move into the house and change locks. when he comes back tell him he moved out like he told you and call the guards if he attempts entry. how are you to know he didn't move out when he said he would - it is just as if he had moved out and left some of his gear there.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

That's a very naughty idea Monkeyman and illegal.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

but is it illegal?

As Monkee says, the guy said he'd move out by Thursday for example... so on Thursday it's reasonable to assume he has moved out, and the landlord moves back in and changes the locks, then ring the tenant telling him the stuff he left is available to be collected..


How does a tenancy usually end?, is the tenant expected to sign something?..

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

If you do evict the tenant he will probably take a case to the PRTB which will cost up to 20K (which was the last cost I saw a landlord ordered to pay for this but the award could be lower. Remember eviction is a serious matter.

One can weight up whether this is a resasonable cost to doing what monkeeman suggested it and it could in certain cases be cheaper than having an unlet property for 2 years with no money to pay a mortgage and a tenant leaving the property seriously damaged. Not trying to scare the landlord here but that is obviously the worst case scenario.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

Update: Just got a call from tenant's solicitor saying I was trying to illegally evict tenant and that I shouldn't contact tenant directly. It was a pretty bizarre conversation, got the impression that the solicitor knew his guy was chancing his arm. I guess I have to get a solicitor myself now. Although realistically I can't see the bank waiting for their mortgage payments while this is resolved.

By the way, I see that this has been included in a key post on landlord problems. As has been pointed out elsewhere, I'm one of those people who didn't set out to be a landlord, but kind of fell into it. Obviously, regret the whole thing now.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

Franky I find it strange a solicitor would telephone you. This is not normal. Do you have his name, number and office address? You ought to check if it is real. If it is then today you need to register with the PRTB. You need to have all your ducks in a row. At the same time as you send off the registration, (by registered post) you send off a complaint to the PRTB. Then you get a solicitor who is experienced in this area and then you need to send proper notice. Have you made the complaint to the gardai?

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

Yes, sounds strange. If the solicitor requested that you don't contact the tenant then you must have the solicitors details, I'd check them as Bronte suggested. Ring the solicitor and ask him what's illegal about what you're doing? Why should you not contact the tenant directly? He should be able to provide detailed answers to these questions. The tenant signed the lease.. so he is your point of contact.

How did the solicitor say you were 'illegally' trying to evict tenant.. you served the correct notice as per the lease.. so how is that illegal?

If the tenant says he is moving out on Thurs, and he hasn't paid rent past that date then I feel you should just move back in.. why not? If the tenant did move out and the house remained empty would you never move back in?, waiting for a call from the tenant that may never come? So what is it you're waiting for?, for the tenant to nicely ring you and tell you he's left?...

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

I once heard of a farmer in Kells who had travellers on his land. He told them to leave but they wanted compensation - squatters rights.He gave them some time to get off the land and if they were not off the land by the time that he got back, that he was going to manure the land.

Needless to say, they never moved off the land, but as soon as the manure touched their caravan, they were off on their merry way.

Can something like this not be done ????

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

I've had a lot of experience with solicitors in the last couple of years (custody,selling house,maintenance) and never,ever has the other person's solicitor rang me! I do have enough solicitor's letters to wallpaper my house however.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

I wouldn't regard any conversation with a solicitor without a letter as serious.

I also had problems tenants (duscussed elsewhere on this firum), I got in a 'friend' who stood over the tenants while they packed their belongings and they were gone in a 1/2 hour. I did have immediate difficulty afterwards where there was a break-in but none thereafter.

Sc-mbags generally don't go to the PRTB.

Is it not much more likely that your tenant got his mate to ring you posing as a solicitor? If he gave you his name, address and landline contact number I would check it out and see if it legitimate. Somehow I doubt it!

Marg said:

Is it not much more likely that your tenant got his mate to ring you posing as a solicitor? If he gave you his name, address and landline contact number I would check it out and see if it legitimate. Somehow I doubt it!

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My first thought also!

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

MonkeeMan said:

when he is out move into the house and change locks. when he comes back tell him he moved out like he told you and call the guards if he attempts entry. how are you to know he didn't move out when he said he would - it is just as if he had moved out and left some of his gear there.

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Yes, very naughty, but sometimes it works.

A friend of mine, who was at her wits end with debts mounting up, did this after her tenant had fallen behind with 10 week's rent (he paid weekly) - she agreed a date with him to move out, sent him a registered letter, had proof of delivery of the letter, no response from the tenant.

She went to the house on the agreed date, he wasn't there, some of his belongings were, changed the locks, contacted his employer and he agreed she could drop his belongings off at his place of work.

The tenant was a public servant and was employed. He just stopped paying the rent for no apparent reason.

By this stage she was down 10 week's rent and two skips to remove all the rubbish and damaged furniture from the house. She had to find the money to pay the mortgage for 3 months until she got another tenant.

The law is totally biased in favour of the tenant and it's about time something was done to protect landlords who are themselves in finanical difficulties and are relying on their tenants to pay the rent on time to cover the mortgage repayments.

The PRTB is too slow - there should be a small claims court system which allows for such disputes to be heard quickly so as to minimise the loss to the landlord and to protect the tenant if they have a genuine complaint.

Re: Problem tenant, worried I might lose house

delgirl said:

She went to the house on the agreed date, he wasn't there, some of his belongings were, changed the locks, contacted his employer and he agreed she could drop his belongings off at his place of work.

The tenant was a public servant and was employed.

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Something fishy about this story. No half-sensible employer is going to get involved in a dispute like this. Most public sector employers are very, very cautious on HR matters. I find the idea of the employer agreeing with the landlord hard to believe.