Child Maintenance

Hi,

I have been reading a number of threads on child maintenance and have a question that i could do with some feedback on;
I have a 3 year old daughter and am in full-time employment, on a graduate programme so salary is not great and the hours are long. At present i live away from any family so have no support and rely heavily on my daughter's father for help (when i have to work late or early).
He has her 2 nights a week and only pays half her child care and nothing else. i am seriously struggling to support myself and my daughter. He refuses to pay anything else towards her care and tells me that if i have a problem with it, that he will take her more and i can pay him maintenance. Because i need his help (due to work collecting her/ dropping her to creche) i feel trapped and afraid to push the maintenance issue but i'm getting desperate.
Can anyone give me some advice?
I keep hearing that 75euro is the average maintenance but her creche alone is 184per week so he pays 92per week already, but that just goes straight into childcare.
Is it right that he can not pay maintenance on the basis of access?

I think its a fair amount that he pays 92e and takes her 2 days a week,not bad,you also say you rely on him to take her when you work late or early.sounds like hes doing his bit.
But lets imagine for a moment that he has her.
You would go to work,pay him 92e a week ,take the child 2 days a week,(you may have to work on those two days and pay childcare) be there also when he works late or early,maybe this would suit you better?would you pay for more?would you be able to pay more?where would you get the money ?
why should he have to pay to see his child?dont get that one.
I would agreee that he should pay any costs involved though,in her upbringing.
Do you mean that he should pay half the rent/morgage?
Would she be happier being with her dad as if as you say you work long hard hours ,shes in a creche,he takes her 2 days a week plus when you work early and late,when do you get to spend time with her?sounds like she spends her life in a creche,or in her dads.
Sorry now i dont mean to be harsh,but I think you are very lucky to have your childs father take her so often and pay half the creche fees.what else exactly are you looking for?And where is he going to get the time to work the extra hours needed to pay more ,when he already has the child 2 days a week and seems like hes available to you at the drop of a hat..

Thanks for the reply,

I don't think i was very clear. I do work long hours but Monday to Friday. He takes her 2 nights a week and i mind her for 5 and i do not want to change that arrangement as it is a good routine for her, as she has stability. When i say i need his help, it's in relation to collecting her occasionally form creche.
My issue is that he does not pay for her upbringing, only childcare and uses the fact that i need his support in minding her to not pay any money towards her actual costs and when i ask for more financial support he uses access and custody to threaten me not to push it, this cannot be right?

But you did say he would mind her when you work late and early...so that would mean he does collect her and bring her to the creche unless im missing something.
can he afford to pay more?

How about calling his bluff and let the child live with him and you give him half the creche fees.He would soon see how difficult and expensive it is and you use the same threats as him re access and custody.That may be the wake up call he needs
I know someone who is a lone parent and the guy gives her 50e a week ,but she doesnt work and he cant afford to pay more

thedaras said:

How about calling his bluff and let the child live with him and you give him half the creche fees.

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I wouldn't go about trying to call his bluff with the jeopardy of losing access to your child. From the sound of it, he is being totally un-reasonable(although I have only your view here). It is only fair that he pays for half of the daily cost of his child, including childcare fees.

The €75 figure that is quoted in relation to child maintenance is the recommended minimum in the District Court. The District Court can award a maximum of €150 per week but a minimum of €75 per week is recommended but lower amounts can be awarded.

The reason for this is that child maintenance is based on the needs of the child and the means of each parent to support the child. The easiest way to understand how much you need to adequately support your child on a day to day basis (including childcare) is to go to www.solo.ie and find the excel spreadsheet under the maintenance section. This is an extremely helpful tool and a good starting point for agreeing a fair amount for everyone concerned.

HTH

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback, I filled out the excel on solo.ie and based on the results, i have decided to make an appointment with a solicitor.
I am petrified that this will cause trouble and my job will suffer if he refuses to help with collecting etc. but i have no choice.
I just want him to halp pay for clothes and food, nothing ridiculous, just half, thats it!
If anyone has any advice on the process of seeking maintenance through the courts before next week, please let me know?
Also, can he argue for more custody for less maintenance? i don't want the custody arrangement to change and know this is the route he will take and it is unclear what the relationship between them is in court?

Hi Ann,

Maintenance and access cannot be dependent on one another. This means that you can't withhold access if the maintenance is not paid and you can't withhold maintenance if the non-custodial parent isn't getting access to their child.

However there is an argument to be made for a reduction in maintenance if the non-custodial parent is awarded access which is over and above the "norm" or if they have the child a considerable part of the week.

Even if you take into account that he would have the child more - you still have shared child related expenses that you both need to meet. For starters clothes, education, childcare etc, etc. If the current access arrangement works for you but he isn't meeting his side of the agreement then I would doubt that any well balanced judge would favour increasing access. he needs to meet his current responsibilities on a regular and consistent basis before he can be considered for an increase!

Many thanks for the response.
At present, she stays with me 5 nights and with him for 2, although i try to be flexible and he does the same but you are confirming what i believe to be correct, that he should pay more than just childcare when i look after EVERY other financial responsibility alone.
I will pursue this but i do wonder why these issues are not clearly drafted somewhere?
Is there a definitive piece of legislation or information that outlines maintenance based on % of income or something and clarifies a consistant reduction for nights of access?
If there isn't, its something that is sorely needed.

It is not right that you should look after every other expense. He needs to start acting like a man and pay for his child.

Can you not talk to him? Can you not point out the solo site?

I would only use a solictor when all the options have run out.

BTW, the courts are on your side.

i personally think you are making a mistake going through the courts, even tho he should be paying more in fairness he is doing his bit, so if it goes to court he will stick to his 2days a week with her and you'll have to bring her up and down to creche yourself..

Ann84 said:

Many thanks for the response.
At present, she stays with me 5 nights and with him for 2, although i try to be flexible and he does the same but you are confirming what i believe to be correct, that he should pay more than just childcare when i look after EVERY other financial responsibility alone.
I will pursue this but i do wonder why these issues are not clearly drafted somewhere?
Is there a definitive piece of legislation or information that outlines maintenance based on % of income or something and clarifies a consistant reduction for nights of access?
If there isn't, its something that is sorely needed.

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AFAIK there is no legislation or information that outlines maintenance etc, etc. All family court judgements are made in camera so you never actually get to see what the norm is. However there is a publication issued quarterly by the courts called Family Law Matters and it can be found under publications on www.courts.ie

The only obligation on parents wrt maintenance is that parents are required to maintain their children equally. Technically this means that each parent should contribute half of the amount needed to maintain their child on a day to day basis. So for example if your ex contributes €300 per month, you should be matching this amount. Add child benefit into the equation and you should have a sum of €766 per month to maintain a child over 5. I say technically because if you have a stay at home parent providing fulltime childcare for their child/ren then you have a situation where the non-custodial parent might be required to pay more maintenance as the custodial parent cannot work if they are providing fulltime childcare and therefore can't contribute equally.

Look, you have a situation where the maintenance you receive isn't matching your child's needs and the access agreed isn't working out. You have 2 options. First off you can go to court and take it down a very antagonistic route or you can go to family mediation services and agree something between yourselves. If you were able to agree it between yourselves it would be far better for your child in the long run. Would you consider family mediation?

You need to draw up a weekly chart of costs relating to the child i.e. food/clothes/childcare and divide by 2 to give a rough estimate of your spend, do bare in mind though that you are getting child benefit support, plus if the child is under 6 the child supplement so don't by expecting much more money.

child benefit 160*12 = 1920
child supplement 900
current support 92*52 = 4784

So currently your already getting = 7604 per annum for 1 child

If you add to the fact you should be contributing half you add another 4784 this brings the total to 12388 after tax which too me is a lot of money, for 5 out of 7 days a week.
I currently have 3 kids and if I was spending this figure it would equate to @39k a year after tax before monies for myself and wife.

Don't mean to be mean but sometimes emotions can blurr the picture, child maintenance is a shared burden, imagine if you were living together would you still be spending figures like these on the child.

Are you claiming lone parents allowance, if you're on a low income are you entitled to any other SW payments.

Ann84,

In my opinion, unless your little girls dad is absolutely loaded, and getting an enormous amount in salary, I cant really see a court giving you more than what you are already getting.

€92 per week is a good amount of maintenance and in my experience you are doing fairy good to be getting this.

You need to look at SW maybe helping you. Have you applied for FIS. Is your ex claiming his Single Parent Tax Credit.

Maybe have a look down this road before you go to a court.

You are only €57 off the max maintenance so unless, as I said, your little girls dad is loaded, you may not get much more, if any, and in the process you may well rock the boat with him.

Believe me, and I am sure many Mammy's on their own would agree, you are not doing too bad with the €92 and with the help he gives you.

OP what salary are you on? What salary is the father on, does he have a house/wife/other children/dependants etc you would need to give these figures/information so that your financial circumstances can be more properly assessed. You do say you're in full time employments so you must have at the least the minimum wage.

I would avoid court if at all possible especially as the father has such a good relationship with his child.

345Jabber said:

child benefit 160*12 = 1920
child supplement 900
current support 92*52 = 4784

So currently your already getting = 7604 per annum for 1 child

If you add to the fact you should be contributing half you add another 4784 this brings the total to 12388 after tax which too me is a lot of money, for 5 out of 7 days a week.

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Jabber your figures are slightly wrong - they should read as follows:
Child benefit 166 x 12 = 1992
Early Supplement 1000 p/a
Current Support of 92 x 52 = 4784

The total income for the purposes of the child (if the op provides an equal amount would therefore be €12,560 per annum.

While I agree with your comment about spending this amount on a child that is with you permanently however if you have to place a baby into fulltime creche care you can expect to pay approximately €1,000 per month - there would be very little left over from the child after that. On the other hand the going rate for childminders at present (in my area) would be approximately €750 per month so there would be money left over at the end of the month if the OP considered using a childminder.

Carrielou, just to point out that the maintenance being received is below the allowable limit in the District Court. Higher amounts can be awarded if you take a child/spousal maintenance case to the Circuit Court.

Probably proves my point that the lady in question will not see much more money even if she does go to court, even with child care of @12k it still leaves her own contribution to the childs up keep of 4784 a year to spend even more if the kady in question goes with a childminder. Remember costs need to be split between both parties.
Carrielou
Just a quick irk, why say "mammy's" what about Dad's who take care of their children why is Ireland so mother centred, I take full and equal responsibility for my children with my wife but if we ever split this would get completely ignored and I'd end up a weekend parent like this individual. Maybe the father here would be in a better position to look after the child, he may possibly equally desire to raise his child fulltime but Irish society just assumes its the mothers birth right

345Jabber

Exactly probably why I used it. (Irish society)

Personally, I dont agree with the system. Mothers rights, Fathers rights!
What about childrens rights?

They all get to an age to be able to speak for themselves, so why not listen to them

Hi,
Thanks all. The question of income was asked and at present i am on 27k per annum and he is in the region of 36k.
I tried to organise mediation but have been on a waiting list since last August and have heard nothing, besides the fact that i think the situation has bypassed mediationat this point.
I don't get any other income apart from child benifit and my salary. As she is staring school this Sept, i feel that the situation cannot continue as is for the next 20 years, i'll be bankrupt. The 92 a week covers childcare ONLY and to say that child benefit would support her other costs every week is not feasable.
I appreciate that 92 seems like alot, but when it is spent on childcare alone, it doesn't exist as i match that amount also every week.
It seems that the only way forward at this point is through court even though i don't really want it to be this way but i have tried to be reasonable and it has gotten me nowhere. I want my daughter to be happy, i want her to have food, clothes, toys, activities but i can't afford to give her these things myself and why should i have to anyway. It's not about father's rights or mother's rights, it's simply about being fair in my view so what choice do i have?

Ann will your childcare costs not be reduced once she starts school? Will this not free up further money for her.

If he is on 36K per annum i would be very surprised if the courts were to award you an increase to be honest.

Please don't take this comment as belittling your situation however I have a baby, I am shortly to be made redundant and will have very little income to spend on them. My children's allowance and early supplement will pay for everything they need - from food, nappies, clothing etc. It would be nice to have extra money for toys, activities in the future but if I don't have that money then we will make do. As my grandmother was fond of saying - you cut your cloth to fit your purse.