Show me the money - young family

T

tiger

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God, that was depressing :(

(a brief summary). Couple that married young, now with 2 kids. Not living an extravagant life, seemed reasonably careful & intelligent just weren't able to make ends meet. Husband had left bank job that wasn't paying enough (sinking into debt) and gone into landscaping, which was now drying up with the end of summer. Needed to be earning €32K net at a minimum. Did some interviews but was actually better off on welfare (eddie seemed surprised by this). In the end they took the relatively drastic step of moving to Sligo, where the husband was from & got a job. But the program left us hanging, as he was going to be depending on future comission, not just his basic, to make ends meet.

Ireland is really a messed place now if a young family starting out has to struggle so much & still seems to be sinking. Hope things work out for them.
 
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Eddie advised them that they needed to increase their income. I thought it was strange that he did not advise her to get a weekend or evening job (at least for 2 or 3 years so that they could try and get some of their 31,000 debt paid off). I also think they had a lot of debt but still seemed to rent very nice places (very modern homes), could they not have tried to reduce some of their rental outgoing by renting a not so new/modern place?
 
I will caveat these remarks by expressing some sympathy on a personal level for the young couple in tonight’s programme who are clearly struggling to make their way. That said I would suggest that they (and it seemed to me, principally he) are very much the authors of their own difficulties.

By way of summation – the couple had married young (19) and now at the age of 23 and 24 have two children under two. We were told their annual expenditure was circa €49,000, while their income seemed to be around €32,000 (the difference was bridged by loans from family and credit cards). The husband gave up a job in financial services to work as a gardener with the vague intention of establishing his own business. This was quickly abandoned at Eddie Hobbes suggestion in favour of a return to the financial services sector. There followed it was hinted a somewhat half-hearted attempt to find employment, which was quickly abandoned in favour of dependency on social welfare and a plan to move to Sligo to be near family and to live more cheaply. Eddie Hobbes left the couple with the husband in a new job in Sligo working as a mortgage advisor – “in between self employed and an employee” (Hobbes challenged that one quickly) on €2,000 per month net - again insufficient for their needs. Eddies Hobbes seemed to have some doubt as to their ability to manage on this amount.

The husband struck me as unfocused and either unaware of his responsibilities towards his family or unwilling to take them up.

What the programme also demonstrated was the disincentive that existed for the husband (and others in a similar situation) to enter paid employment as opposed to reliance on social welfare.

The programme was of interest, less for any personal finances lessons that could be drawn, than as a salutary warning of the need to avoid creating employment disincentives – in this case a clearly over generous and too easily accessible social welfare system.
 
Mr Toad said:
What the programme also demonstrated was the disincentive that existed for the husband (and others in a similar situation) to enter paid employment as opposed to reliance on social welfare.

The programme was of interest, less for any personal finances lessons that could be drawn, than as a salutary warning of the need to avoid creating employment disincentives – in this case a clearly over generous and too easily accessible social welfare system.
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Did they explicitly list the welfare benefits that they were collecting? I presume that he was on UA and not UB (since, being self employed in the recent past, he presumably did not qualify for this PRSI linked benefit)? Maybe it's a good idea that they're talking about interviewing those on UA/UB every month or so - rather than every 6 months or less - to check on their progress in seeking employment?
 
It just said they were getting "the dole" of I think €230 pw and Rent Allowance of €260 pw. Those figures may not be 100% accurate but they were getting circa €500 a week. That is equivalent to €26,000 net per year. Which is to me far to generous. How can we talk about incentive to work with that kind of money being bandied about.

I too was surprised that Natalie was not recommended to make some effort to contribute financially to the household. Either by working part-time at evenings or weekends or taking some paid work into the home eg childminding.

I also passed comment on their homes. If I owed that kind of money I would be savings anywhere I could.
 
Two things I found a bit strange with this couple;
1) They lived in a very modern apt, paying I think €1300 a month!, surely they could of found a cheaper place than that, they also had some very nice furniture in particular the leather sofa and the car was decent enough but yet they were in a position where buying bread and milk was a worry! I guess the loans all paid for the apt etc.
2) Am i right in saying he worked for a bank for 4 years and was earning €24K? What was he doing in there? my friend started in a bank a few years ago and although he started off on very low wages he now he earns 35K+

I felt so sorry for the kids, it looked like they want it all but didnt put the effort in to pay for it all
 
I watched this program and thought that Eddie could have gibrn them more definate advice or else have came back a little later on to check exactly what had happened to them.
I don't agree that the social welfare was too generous as 250 a week with 2 small kids just about pays the bills and the rest was for the rent allowance. I think they were a couple who didn't want to rely on welfare and he was donig his best to help the family. He seemed pretty responsible to me for his age. I thought they could have been advised to do the following:
1. Find cheaper accomadation but still nice.
2. Wife to contribute financially in some way i.e. try childminding,work part-time, work from home as not many young couples with their level of debt can survive on one income confortably.

I thought the program showed a fairly typical couple with fairly typical problems. Many people earning under 35,000 find it very hard to survive especially with 2 children. He needed the car for work so this couldn't go and other than them being able to get some form of affordable housing couldn't see any other solutions other than he getting a higher paid job (maybe get further qualifications at night?) or the wife contributing something on a part-time basis as minding kids is a fairly full-time job at their ages!
 
regarding the quality of their home and the furniture in it, remember that a lot of apartments etc. come furnished so the furniture may not have been theirs in the first place.

I did think it was somewhat reckless to give up a paying job in the faint hope of settin gup his own business without any forethought into (a) the impact of leaving the job and (b) what is requried to run his own business.

Just a thought

C
 
Capaill said:
regarding the quality of their home and the furniture in it, remember that a lot of apartments etc. come furnished so the furniture may not have been theirs in the first place.

C
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They brought the furniture with them to Sligo
 
Capaill said:
I did think it was somewhat reckless to give up a paying job in the faint hope of setting up his own business without any forethought into (a) the impact of leaving the job and (b) what is requried to run his own business.
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I agree - plus it would have been nice to see him try something else before signing straight on the dole. He applied for a few financial jobs and that was it.

It sounds like they are trying to live a fairytale life without a grounding in reality.
 
did anyone notice how their attitude change once they had moved to sligo and he had a job? In bray, they were very eager for help, and praising the 'tracking system', but once a job was found, it was quite clear that they did not want to disclose earnings or discuss their finances at all...
 
wexford said:
did anyone notice how their attitude change once they had moved to sligo and he had a job? In bray, they were very eager for help, and praising the 'tracking system', but once a job was found, it was quite clear that they did not want to disclose earnings or discuss their finances at all...
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But sure they didn't need help anymore as he had gotten a job as a "Financial Advisor" and so therefore knows it all now!
 
I saw this too - felt really sorry for them. They seemed nice but completely clueless. Cutting back & her finding evening work was the best solution I think. EH seemed to expect the guy to earn €50k pa which was very unrealistic.
 
Chamar said:
EH seemed to expect the guy to earn €50k pa which was very unrealistic.
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Totally - I mean if it was that easy everyone would be on that money.
 
In some ways i think this program may be more educational to some. Eddie Hobbs in my opinion has always made it seem too easy to get a remortgage or a consolidated loan from the credit union to solve all problems. I felt at times he was sending out the wrong message. This program shows how easy it can be to get into the poverty trap with no quick and easy solution to get out and also as Fob points out the average industrial wage is a struggle for a family to live on in modern day Ireland given the cost of housing and our utilities.
 
Very true. I think also he should focus more on the self-imposed cost of living of many people. Last night the couple had a car loan I think. Why not sell the car and buy a clunker? Also, in Rip off Ire. things like lattes/lunches/liquor really add up.
 
I agree. Hobbs’ ‘solution’ in all cases is to re-finance your debt so you can continue to ignore your personal responsibility for how you got into debt in the first place. Has anyone seen the BBC programme ‘Pay Off Your Mortgage in 2 Years’ on BBC2 on Thursday nights, presented by René Carayol http://www.carayol.com? This is a far better programme where the presenter forces the participants to face up to their moral responsibility for their debts and then forces them to work / change lifestyles etc. to eliminate debt. Eddie’s ‘do a deal and sit back’ just isn’t into the same league.
 
I thought Eddie Hobbs could have advised the couple of the incentives to work, they would qualify for Family Income Supplement (the most under claimed benefit afaik), they could also apply for Afordable Housing or Shared Ownership, bringing their housing costs right down. I also think that although her decision to stay at home should be respected, she could have been advised to start childminding, 10K tax free!
 
It struck me that there were other issues at play here and my heart went out to such a young couple struggling so much. Mr Mo commented that he felt she (young mum) seemed to be suffering from PND of some sort and this could be part of the reason that she didn't take in other children to care for etc.
In saying all of that, the half hour program isn't long enough to tackle even half of the issues in the episode.........
 
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