Interesting article re EU and Russia/Georgia situation

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Ceist Beag

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Found [broken link removed] article by Tom McGurk interesting, particularly the following passage.
Isn’t it high time - not least given the current developing energy crisis in Europe - that we all realise that it is in the EU’s interest to have stability and territorial integrity respected in Russia?

For example, what on earth has the EU to gain by the Czech Republic and Poland allowing a US missile system on their territory? Indeed, do they belong emotionally to Europe or to America? Have they even consulted any of us about this decision? And what are its consequences for all of us?

It’s time we took a new look at the whole area of EU-Russian relations. For example, the Cold War attitude of the western media towards Russia this week has been extraordinary.
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Completely agree with him regarding the media coverage - the BBC news is starting to look like Sky News these days with their bias and sensationalism (or maybe they have been for a while and I'm only noticing it now!!). Does anyone else feel that maybe Russia aren't getting a fair balance in the media?
 
And McCain is now leading the race in the US because of this.

I read Tom's article alright. I found it interesting to get a different perspective on the usual story we are hearing on the news. McWilliams also wrote about it in the Business Post.
 
The author is a bit one sided - he says it was the Georgians who invaded South Ossetia. It seems to have escaped him that South Ossetia is part of Georgia.
 
McGurk and the SBP (same thing in those days) were against the Good Friday Agreement (yes, I have a long memory).
They like to be contrarian.

The only information we have on this matter is from the media, so it is a bit of a paradox that OP can claim a media bias. Is OP privy to other sources of info, maybe from South Ossetian relatives.:rolleyes:
 
csirl said:
The author is a bit one sided - he says it was the Georgians who invaded South Ossetia. It seems to have escaped him that South Ossetia is part of Georgia.
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They did invade it csirl - both sides had agreed to a peace keeping force within this area to try and let politics figure out a way towards agreement for all. Georgia broke this agreement by sending in the army, simple as that.
 
Harchibald said:
Is OP privy to other sources of info, maybe from South Ossetian relatives.:rolleyes:
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:p yeah my long lost South Ossetian cousins are on to me regularly with updates!! Nope I don't know any more than what we're told but I am very sceptical about the one sided image portrayed of Russia being the big bad bully and poor little Georgia being the innocent victim.
 
Ceist Beag said:
They did invade it csirl - both sides had agreed to a peace keeping force within this area to try and let politics figure out a way towards agreement for all. Georgia broke this agreement by sending in the army, simple as that.
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Yeah I think Georgia got a bit cocky thinking they could do what they wanted because the US and Nato would never let anything happen to them bacause they are all allies in the 'war on terror'. It was a bad mistake on their leaders part. Having said that, Russia's postering and behaviour since then has been worrying. Have been following Russian affairs for awhile because my company invests there (or should say invested there) and I have to say there are worrying warning signs coming out of there. They spent the past few years courting foreign approval and investment. That is certainly not the case anymore.

Anyway back to the shield issue, I don't really know enough to comment on how it is supposed to safeguard us all from the nasty Iranians but I can just imagine the Americans reaction if Russia announced a missile shield being built in Cuba. Sometimes it feels like we are stuck in a time-warp!
 
They did invade it csirl - both sides had agreed to a peace keeping force within this area to try and let politics figure out a way towards agreement for all. Georgia broke this agreement by sending in the army, simple as that.
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A bit simplistic - I think a "peace keeping force" was forced on Georgia. You can't invade your own country, all Georgia did was relocate some of its army to a different part of their country. The borders of Georgia, which include South Ossetia, are recognised by the international community and the UN. They should be respected.
 
Ceist Beag said:
Does anyone else feel that maybe Russia aren't getting a fair balance in the media?
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Maybe the Russian journalists who have been murdered, beaten, 'disappeared' or tortured by the Putin regime would be able to tell us what's really going on, but alas, they can't.
 
Sunny said:
Anyway back to the shield issue, I don't really know enough to comment on how it is supposed to safeguard us all from the nasty Iranians but I can just imagine the Americans reaction if Russia announced a missile shield being built in Cuba. Sometimes it feels like we are stuck in a time-warp!
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Hold on, a missile shield in Cuba carries no cred whatsoever. Shielding who? Only the Cubans. Certainly not shielding Russia. The '63 crisis was of course a different kettle of sardines, in that case they were pointing nukes at the US right on its doorstep.

Having said that, hard to see this Pole/Czech shield being merely anti Iran. It is surely capable of being used against Russia.
 
Harchibald said:
Hold on, a missile shield in Cuba carries no cred whatsoever. Shielding who? Only the Cubans. Certainly not shielding Russia. The '63 crisis was of course a different kettle of sardines, in that case they were pointing nukes at the US right on its doorstep.

Having said that, hard to see this Pole/Czech shield being merely anti Iran. It is surely capable of being used against Russia.
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By definition you can't use a shield against anyone. I for one completely understand the feelings of the Poles, Czechs etc. Imagine, forty years since the Prague Spring, how the Czechs must feel watching what's going on in Georgia? Easy for Tom McGurk etc. to be so complacent about the aggressiveness of Russia - there are a lot of important, powerful countries between us and them, unlike their immediate neighbours.
 
I know all you paddy anglo-phobes out there in AAM space hate to admit it, but GWB has played an absolute blinder in foreign policy. He has the Poles and Czechs eating out of his hand, he has the Ukrainians and Georgians begging to join him. His one misjudgment was that he underestimated the strength of Islamic sectarian division in Iraq. Thankfully he did, otherwise he might not have done the right thing. As it is 5 years later and with much more US sacrifice than anticipated, Iraq is at last coming good.

Hey, I hate the way he swaggers and talks with a Texan drawl, but credit where credit is due, he is a master geopolitical strategist. Barak Obahama just doesn't cut it in this arena, IMHO.
 
I don't think the coverage has been particularly biased. It's been widely reported that both Ossetians and Georgians have accused the other of killing and blamed each other for starting the conflict. It isn't a clear cut case of the Russians being clearly in the wrong. It's natural that the Ossetian majority would want to join with their ethnic kin in Russia where they'll be safer from ethnic cleansing. Ultimately history teaches us that all countries with the exception of those with a melting pot culture need to divide along ethnic lines before they can come back together voluntarily as equals (the EU). This isn't right because lots of people die either making it happen or trying to stop it but it's the way it is.

Weak European leaders will deny it but the best medium term solution is a modern day Yalta agreement between the P5 + 1 to leave Georgia within the sphere of influence of the Russians.
 
I think GBW has seriously underestimated the threat from Russia. The Shield based in Poland, or so its called is a missile interceptor. I would take their threat to nuke Poland very seriously. They are an unpredictable
aggressive force, with blood on their hands after the atrocity in Georgia.
The deal signed with Nato is just inviting trouble with Russia - What annoyed me was Codoleeza Rice flying over to meet Georgian president,
after he initiated the whole sorry mess. She should have condemed him, instead using him to speed up signing of shield deal. If I was Putin I can understand how he would be well peed off. - I hope Barack Obama is elected, the world is so complicated, we need a new approach, way more dialogue, not McCains way as it will only end in bloodshed.
 
Elphaba, they haven't threatened to nuke Poland. What they have said is that under their rules of engagement enemy countries that have nuclear weapons or provide significant support to enemy nuclear operations are eligible targets for Russian nukes. This is more a case of saying "the good friend of my enemy is my good enemy" than "let's bomb Poland".
 
Harchibald said:
I know all you paddy anglo-phobes out there in AAM space hate to admit it, but GWB has played an absolute blinder in foreign policy. He has the Poles and Czechs eating out of his hand, he has the Ukrainians and Georgians begging to join him. His one misjudgment was that he underestimated the strength of Islamic sectarian division in Iraq. Thankfully he did, otherwise he might not have done the right thing. As it is 5 years later and with much more US sacrifice than anticipated, Iraq is at last coming good.

Hey, I hate the way he swaggers and talks with a Texan drawl, but credit where credit is due, he is a master geopolitical strategist. Barak Obahama just doesn't cut it in this arena, IMHO.
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GWB has made more people hate the USA than anybody before him or probably ever again.

Pique318 said:
lol...thanks Harchibald....that's the best laugh I've had on here in months !!!:D:D:D
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Me too!!!:D:D:D

Almost choked on my beer when I read that post.
 
Harchibald said:
Hold on, a missile shield in Cuba carries no cred whatsoever. Shielding who? Only the Cubans. Certainly not shielding Russia. The '63 crisis was of course a different kettle of sardines, in that case they were pointing nukes at the US right on its doorstep.

Having said that, hard to see this Pole/Czech shield being merely anti Iran. It is surely capable of being used against Russia.
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I wasn't being serious about Cuba. At the moment and to the best of my knowledge, Russia is the only Country capable of launching an inter-continental missile onto USA or European soil. So they may claim this shield is about protecting NATO countries from rogue Countries like Iran but for the moment it only seems to affect Russia. If you are the Russian military and you see another Nuclear power placing missiles in neighbouring Countries, why wouldn't you in turn in aim some of your missiles at these Countries? The point is that it may a "defence" system but this could very easily lead to another arms race.

As I said earlier, in my opinion the West need to very very careful with how they deal with Russia. It seems like Russia is getting more and more Nationalistic with every passing day and this brings problems. What happened with Georgia could also happen with like Countries like Ukraine where there is also disputed land.
 
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