truthseeker
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since "no-one gets council housing for free", if it's that bad, perhaps they should vote with their pocket and find alternative accomodation?
You are joking, right? You've read about the folks in Dolphin House with faecal matter coming through the pipes into their flats, right? And the lady in Ballymun who froze to death, right?That's probably true about the tenacy agreement. Do you think the tenants are exaggerating? If not does this not point to poor provision & maintenance of public housing? What about the Health & Safety of the local authority?
Yes, and I would hope they've written some stiff letters to Modom at the Irish Times as well. That will really get things sorted.I would hope that the residents haved formed a resident association, campaigned to their local authority and contacted the gardai...can you post the link to the Southside People, as all you posted were random comments (from whom we don't even know)?
Let them eat cake.Since "No-one gets council housing for free", if it's that bad, perhaps they should vote with their pocket and find alternative accomodation?
You are joking, right? You've read about the folks in Dolphin House with faecal matter coming through the pipes into their flats, right? And the lady in Ballymun who froze to death, right?
Yes, and I would hope they've written some stiff letters to Modom at the Irish Times as well. That will really get things sorted.
I did search for Southside People online at the time that I made the original post and couldn't find it, but feel free to search further yourself. Or drop round and go diving in my recycle bin if you like.
Let them eat cake.
Have you ever been in St Nathy's House in Churchtown?I take it from this that you don't think these people are exaggerating (a view I hold myself) and therefore this is a problem with poor provision & maintenance of public housing
Just to be clear, are you accusing me of making up the quotes that I posted?You were the one who posted random comments from a source that you cannot provide a link for, not me. Until you do who's to say you didn't make them up yourself? By the way, I think they are valid comments but I'd like to see the whole article to see if those complaining actually did anything rather than complain.
It is everything to do with the Marie-Antoinette like comment, as it assumes that people have the money to spend on getting alternative accomodation.Nothing to do with cake, rather how people choose to spend their money.
Have you ever been in St Nathy's House in Churchtown?
Just to be clear, are you accusing me of making up the quotes that I posted?
It is everything to do with the Marie-Antoinette like comment, as it assumes that people have the money to spend on getting alternative accomodation.
It is everything to do with the Marie-Antoinette like comment, as it assumes that people have the money to spend on getting alternative accomodation.
No-one gets council housing for free.
I'll take that as a 'No' then - that you haven't been in St Nathy's House, but you still feel qualified to comment on whether the quotes are exaggerated are not. Personally, I'd have thought that you might need some actual knowledge of the situation to make this judgement, but I guess that's just me being picky again.Do you think therefore that this is a result of poor provision and maintenance of local housing?
OK then, let's wait and see if anyone DOES actually argue that I've made up those comments, and we can deal with that when it happens. Your trust in the press is touching, given that you expect every article to give a full picture and full background to every story. It is interesting to note that you were very quick to assume that the residents had taken no action, though you (yet again) have no actual knowledge of the situation.Personally I'm not, but it could be argued. What I did say was "I think they are valid comments but I'd like to see the whole article to see if those complaining actually did anything rather than complain."
A multi-pronged approach is usually the best option in these kinds of situations - some of the stuff that you've mentioned would certainly play a part in the solution, but I wouldn't be so foolish as to assume that there are simplistic solutions just round the corner.I've done my best to answer your questions...so once again...you're in this predicament....what would you do?
Or to put your theory into algaebraeic terms;So if theyre not getting it for free, theyre paying for it right? If theyre paying for it, then why dont they leave and pay for alternative accomodation? Oh wait a minute, they dont have money to spend on alternative accomodation - because theyre getting it for free!
I'll take that as a 'No' then - that you haven't been in St Nathy's House, but you still feel qualified to comment on whether the quotes are exaggerated are not. Personally, I'd have thought that you might need some actual knowledge of the situation to make this judgement, but I guess that's just me being picky again.
OK then, let's wait and see if anyone DOES actually argue that I've made up those comments, and we can deal with that when it happens.
Your trust in the press is touching
Your trust in the press is touching, given that you expect every article to give a full picture and full background to every story. It is interesting to note that you were very quick to assume that the residents had taken no action, though you (yet again) have no actual knowledge of the situation.
A multi-pronged approach is usually the best option in these kinds of situations - some of the stuff that you've mentioned would certainly play a part in the solution, but I wouldn't be so foolish as to assume that there are simplistic solutions just round the corner.
This issue is with consistent under-investment and low priority given to funding of social housing by central Govt, in line with many of the opinions that came out on this thread.Not haven been there I take your word for it...sounds like a dump.
But you still seem incapable of answering this basic question:Why can't you acknoweldge that this is a issue with poor provision and maintenance of public housing?
Haven't I already explained that they don't seem to have a website?I'd prefer if you could provide a link as is so often asked by yourself. As I've said, I actually think those comments are real, but I would just like to see if it was mentioned in the article anywhere if those complaining actaully did anything rather than complain.
Indeed, but I didn't expect the single article in a local paper to be a comprehensive analysis of the background, current status and future options.You were the one quoting from an article not me.
I've already answered that question.Sounds a bit touchy-feely...in any case, I'm not asking how this situation should be addressed at a macro level, I asking you a basic question "you're in this predicament....what would you do?".
This issue is with consistent under-investment and low priority given to funding of social housing by central Govt, in line with many of the opinions that came out on this thread.
I've already answered that question.
I've already answered that question.
You are joking, right? You've read about the folks in Dolphin House with faecal matter coming through the pipes into their flats, right? And the lady in Ballymun who froze to death, right?
The classic answer; "It's not the fault of the people living there, it's not the fault of the people charged with managing it, it's not the fault of the people charged with fixing it; it's all down to the gubberment and how those evil politicians won't spend the money on 'dem poor people."
Or
"Give us more of your hard earned money because we can't be bothered spending the money you've already given us properly"
Take it or leave it, my good man. It's a hypothetical situation. I'm not going to stay up late writing an essay for you on a hypothetical situation. Life's too short.You haven't. You provided a wishy-washy, touchy-feely answer at a macro level.
How about completing the following:
"If I were in that predicament I would..."
It's called community spirit.Dolphine House, I think this was the one on the radio at the weekend. The place sounded atrocious but what I didn't understand from the lady who was describing how bad it was why she continued to live there. She said that she wanted to live there no matter what. It looks like one could live a lifetime before it would be sorted out but meantime surely if one had to live in such a place knowing that one would move on. Is there anything preventing that lady from going to rent an ordinary house or flat bearing in mind that the government will pay most of the rent for a far better place.
If I had to live in such a place I'd be long gone and I'd prefer a tent. Why would you live in a place that in injurious to the health and well being of your children.
Here's one (of several) possible scenarios. You don't believe it is likely that someone can freeze to death in Dublin today. You prioritise your kids safety, but you are concerned about risks to your few remaining bits of property if you leave your premises unattended. You can't afford a portable heater, and you're in arrears on your ESB bill. You hope that tomorrow will bring something better. As the hypothermia becomes more severe, your thinking becomes more sluggish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia#Severe) and you do not respond in a rational way. You might do a bit of Paradoxical undressing, which makes things worse. You die in your sleep.Lady in Ballymun. The whole emphasis on this story has been about how the council were negligent because the heating was defective. But what about self preservation. I've lived in a house with no heat, you do hot water bottles, you do plug in electric heaters, you do gas heaters, you do extra clothing, you stay with your mother. You do not do a bath and sleep with no clothes on. In the best of places the heating can go at any time, it happens, but you have to cope with it.
Take it or leave it, my good man. It's a hypothetical situation. I'm not going to stay up late writing an essay for you on a hypothetical situation. Life's too short.
I've given a pretty clear indication of my thinking on the matter.
It's a hypothetical situation. I'm not going to stay up late writing an essay for you on a hypothetical situation. Life's too short.
Here's one (of several) possible scenarios. You don't believe it is likely that someone can freeze to death in Dublin today. You prioritise your kids safety, but you are concerned about risks to your few remaining bits of property if you leave your premises unattended. You can't afford a portable heater, and you're in arrears on your ESB bill. You hope that tomorrow will bring something better. As the hypothermia becomes more severe, your thinking becomes more sluggish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia#Severe) and you do not respond in a rational way. You might do a bit of Paradoxical undressing, which makes things worse. You die in your sleep.
Any rational person in that situation would put their shoulder to the wheel and work out how they can get out of there and better their lot. They'd find out how to get work and not depend on the state who can only provide accomodation of this standard. It may not happen overnight but in 12 months any able bodied person should be able to accomplish this with some will power.
What is the difference between 'unable to work on medical grounds' and 'on the sick'? What specifically do you mean by 'on the sick'?As per my post 17 - Anyone who is unable to work on medical grounds excluded....their homes should be very nice, as long as those "on the sick" don't qualify.
OK, so just to make sure I understand you correctly - you are concluding that any able-bodied person in council housing for more than 12 months is not rational - right?
Thats not what I understood from it - I understood it to mean any able bodied person living in atrocious conditions in council housing should be able to get the shoulder to the wheel and better their lot.