Sound Insulation

Hi everybody,

I bought a house recently and I'm now moved in a few months. Nice house nice, quite area BUT I'm afraid the finish on the house is a joke !!

Its a semi-D house 3 bedroom.

The sound insulation is a big joke. Its like the walls are made of paper I can hear everything from next door from them chatting away to them walking around, opening/closing doors its really bad. If they get up early in the morning it means I'm awake as well and if they have a party I might as well be in their house with them its that bad.

I got onto the builder and he didn't want to know about it and said everything was up to standard or has he put it above standard. So I went and got a sound test done in the house to see if it was "up to standard", guess what it wasn't it failed in all rooms tested. The standard says that it has to be 53dB or higher mine came in at 48dB which is bad in terms of sound. So now that I've the builder by the b*lls he is going to have to fix this between the two houses in question mine and my neighbours which I'm pursing now.

Just wondering has anybody else had this problem ??? It seems to me that more and more houses that are getting built these days are not even close to the standards set out.

Cheers
/KK

Many other people have posted complaints similar to yours on this subject over the past year. I hope you get satisfaction in your case, perhaps you might let us know how you get on?

Hi Whiplash,

Welcome to AAM.

Sorry to hear about this very annoying problem that you are having with the new house. As Carpenter says we have had some other threads on this subject and using this might help to source them for you

In the meantime this previous thread and some of the links therein might be helpful. Best of luck with your endeavours with the builder.

@Whiplash: Who tests for this and what sort of fee are we talking about?
I just had a flick through the building regs and whilst part E covers sound, I dont see any mention of an actual decibel level. Was the 53dB mentioned by the folks that did the test?

If the builders liable (and lets face it, none of us would have any sympathy for him ), thats going to be a very troublesome and expensive fix isnt it?

Hi Everybody, Thanks for your replies so far. I got a guy by the name of Jim Dunne to do the sound test it cost €600 for the test. He knows his stuff to be honest here is a link to an article he wrote on this issue in case anybody else is having the same issues as myself its a good read. [broken link removed]

The builder called into me yesterday and has said he will do everything to fix the issue I am having and he is going to get Jim Dunne and another sound engineer on board to come up with the best solution for the sound issue. While this is great news that the builder has said he will do everything possible to fix it and in a timely manner there are still a lot of legal things to be ironed out before going any further as you could imagine.

So all in all if anybody has this issue and isn't sure what to do about it they can contact me if need be and I can advise them on what I did to get to were I am today with the issue.

Cheers all,
Keith

whiplash said:

Hi Everybody, Thanks for your replies so far. I got a guy by the name of Jim Dunne to do the sound test it cost €600 for the test. He knows his stuff to be honest here is a link to an article he wrote on this issue in case anybody else is having the same issues as myself its a good read. [broken link removed]

The builder called into me yesterday and has said he will do everything to fix the issue I am having and he is going to get Jim Dunne and another sound engineer on board to come up with the best solution for the sound issue. While this is great news that the builder has said he will do everything possible to fix it and in a timely manner there are still a lot of legal things to be ironed out before going any further as you could imagine.

So all in all if anybody has this issue and isn't sure what to do about it they can contact me if need be and I can advise them on what I did to get to were I am today with the issue.

Cheers all,
Keith

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Good to hear that your builder is taking responsibility for it at least. I was following this thread with interest as I am in a similar position with a house that I purchased secondhand recently and which to my dismay found to have very poor insulation. Unfortunately due to the age of the house (7 years) and I guess my inexperience with this type of thing I dont think I would have the same type of recourse as you.

In my case the party wall is literally one cavity with a plasterboard (tape and joined) and no insulation whatsoever!

Trying to resolve it at least on our side by doubleboarding with blue backed boards for sound, although this will affect size of the rooms somewhat but at a lost as to how to regain some type of sound insulation apart from this!

Hi Sam78, can I just ask you is the plasterboard that you want to use a sound insulated plasterboard ? and what is the make of it ?

This sort of thing was used on my house and the name of it was 'blue board' and as far as I know this has been taken off the market by home bond because its ineffective when stopping sound.

Would you not consider striping the walls back to the bricks and then insulate it from there you'll lose less space in your house!?

The following company are good for sound insulation solutions.

http://www.moyisover.ie/

In our situation we have just a regular plasterboard literally stuck against the party wall (which appears to be a cavity) with no insulation in between!

Although its not an ideal solution the plan is (and on advice from husbands brother who is a dryliner) that we fill the gap with expansion foam, then doubleboard it with the blue boards mentioned as these are a higher density (about 50% heavier than a regular board so I'm told) and hopefully will improve it to some degree.

Apparently if blue boards are used correctly they are effective but not say in your case if they were literally just put up as a normal plasterboard without being staggered or in conjunction with insulation then they are of no use.

Certainly an eye opener the problems it causes when the construction of a house is handled in a shabby way!

Sorry just to add I dont know the specific name of the plasterboard that he's planning on using - if I find out will post back!

No worries Sam if you find out let me know and let me know how you get on. Just a matter of interest how bad is the level of sound that you hear from your neighbours ? Its safe to say that I can hear everything from a plastic bag been opened to them talking. The other morning they decided to unload their dishwasher at 05:00 in the morning !!!! It woke me up to say I was pi**ed off is an understatement !


/KK

What about sound transmission within the house itself (detached) ie toilet use, footsteps, light being switched on/off, shower sounding like a tractor running? Are there any regs. on this?

Hi Geegee, are you talking about noise within your own house and not coming from your neighbours? I don't think there is any reg on noise within your own house to be honest but again I could be wrong. There are two different types of noise (1) Airborne Noise (2) Impact Noise. Airborne noise is the likes of people talking etc and Impact Noise is from doors closing, footsteps. As far as I know there is only a reg for airborne noise and non for impact noise. Its much much harder to try and stop impact noise in a house then airborne noise because it travels differently.

You may get the information you're looking for from here.

[broken link removed]

/KK

Whiplash

I am fed up at this stage. There is plenty of noise from the next door apartment but not as much as you describe and we don't use those rooms much (spare room and bathroom).
The main problem that I can't get away from is the *total* lack of sound insulation from the foyer. The foyer isn't carpeted and every little noise i.e. talking, keys, anything echoes and comes straight in the front apartment door. The beep as the neighbour sets his alarm every morning is driving me nuts.

The builder insists it's all the spec but I feel I've been taken for a ride and am considering having someone look at it. I think I will contact Jim Dunne.

Hi annR, usually apartments are a lot better sound insulated then houses because of fire regs etc so I'm surprised to hear you're having such issues.

I got the same from the builder when I first complained about the level of noise I could hear and he said that my house was above standards !! Big joke it wasn't even near the standard so just goes to show you have to prove them wrong - they'll cop the bill for the test I had to get done as well !!

I met with my builder last week and he as said he'll do everything he can to fix the issue I have. He said the work will take 3 weeks to complete.! I don't care how long it will take once its sorted. He is meeting with two sound engineers and a architect to come up with the best possible solution and to the highest spec. So all in all the work should be finished by the end of Feb. I'll let you all know the results.

this is one area that really, really annoys me.

For relatively little money (especially when builders’ volume discounts are taken into account), a builder could easily do a very good job of sound insulating either a house or an apartment during construction. Doing this retrospectively after completion is prohibitively expensive.

There are so many stories out there of builders doing the bare minimum when it comes to sound insulation, and in this case, not even the bare minimum. Gone are the days when a builder took pride in his work and knew that he needed to deliver a quality product to maintain a good rep to get future work. Are there any builders out there who say ‘mmm, the regs don’t look good enough to me, I’m going to do it better than that’?

Which brings me to the findings of Jim Dunne’s tests: the regs say that 53dB is the standard. The tests showed that 48dB noises could be heard. That’s just under 10% less effective than the regs say it should be. The original poster described the noises as a major intrusion. Lets pretend the sound insulation was actually 10% more effective than it currently is, bringing it to 53dB – does it sound like this would be enough of an improvement to give a good quality of life with no sound intrusion? I seriously doubt it.

My point is that the building regulations are clearly way too low and need to be revised to bring them into line with the modern trend of more condensed habitation. But alas, the construction industry are one of FF’s main sources of funding, and indeed many members of FF have interests in construction, so can we honestly expect an impartial decision to remove the ridiculously low standards which builders are currently hiding behind?

I totally agree with you Ohpinchy !! Jim is one of the guys trying to get the regs changed they're clearly out dated at this stage as peoples life styles have changed with people working different hours i.e. night shift work, cities getting bigger and noisier as a result. They seriously need to look a the regs again and change them as they are to low. Jim as said that he is getting more and more calls from home owners with this issue. You really would have to be in my house to believe the level of noise I can hear !!

I don't need to set my alarm clock to get up in the mornings my alarm clock are my neighbours who get up just before me they wake me every single morning without fail.

All I can say is don't let the builders away with it do what I did and get the sound test done and then take the builders to the cleaners !!

Glad to hear someone is looking into lobbying to get the regs changed. I'd be interested in finding out more on what can be done about this.

Poor sound insulation is actually one of the main reasons why I stayed away from new builds - I've heard stories of people being able to hear their neighbours cut their food when the knives hit the plates! I for one would be prepared to pay extra to get it done right from day one and I'd say theres others that feel that way too.

OhPinchy said:

Which brings me to the findings of Jim Dunne’s tests: the regs say that 53dB is the standard. The tests showed that 48dB noises could be heard. That’s just under 10% less effective than the regs say it should be. The original poster described the noises as a major intrusion. Lets pretend the sound insulation was actually 10% more effective than it currently is, bringing it to 53dB – does it sound like this would be enough of an improvement to give a good quality of life with no sound intrusion? I seriously doubt it.

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Totally agree with the point here of enhancing and enforcing these regs, one thing to note though, is that the dB scale is logarithmic, not linear, the difference between 48dB and 53dB is significantly more than 10%. You can't directly add or subtract.

Better known logaritmic scale would be Richter, where a magnitude 6 earthquake is about 31 times more powerful than a 5. A 7 would be 31 times more powerful again. So a mag. 7 is going on 1000 times more powerful than a 5.

Boils down to 48dB is a LONG way below regs.
Leo

Leo said:

Totally agree with the point here of enhancing and enforcing these regs, one thing to note though, is that the dB scale is logarithmic, not linear, the difference between 48dB and 53dB is significantly more than 10%. You can't directly add or subtract.

Better known logaritmic scale would be Richter, where a magnitude 6 earthquake is about 31 times more powerful than a 5. A 7 would be 31 times more powerful again. So a mag. 7 is going on 1000 times more powerful than a 5.

Boils down to 48dB is a LONG way below regs.
Leo

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Ah, the penny drops! That makes sense alright. So I wonder is 53dB actually a decent standard then (i.e. does it give a decent standard of living), cos if it does it sounds to me like theres plenty of builders out there not meeting the regulations?

Well, from a quick Google, a whisper is generally about 30dB, normal conversation from about 1m is about 60dB, while lawnmowers from the same distance would be in the 90-100dB range.

So if the party wall attenuates noise by 53dB, I guess it would be certainly reduce most domestic noises to an acceptable level. How many houses meet this standard though?
Leo