Bullying boss???

Hi folks,

My boss said to me that i should be working my lunch breaks and staying late. I said i would if he paid me overtime or even a proper wage and he told me I would never progress through the company if i didnt do this kind of pro-bono work. I already do menial tasks which i reckon i shouldnt but no union and 'thats how its always been done'! Is it ok for him to be saying these things??

Cheers

That doesn't sound very pleasant! I'm not a solicitor nor am I a Trades Union representative so this is layperson's common-sense not authoritative advice.

It depends on how well defined your job is. For example my very first job as a 16-year-old in Dublin was "junior shop assistant" in a well-known confectioners. It turned out that the "junior" was the whipping-post for a dozen or so very frustrated women working in the shop and I spent 6 months in a basement making boxes up for the cakes and gateaux, sweeping floors, washing equipment etc.........a regular little Cinderella! They were also abusive and I worked very long hours. My family stepped in, went up to H.Q. and told off the Area Manager - who was hostile and unapologetic and said something to the effect that I should be bloody glad to get a job. My relatives told him to stuff his job we weren't paupers or slavelabour and whisked me off home on the spot - without notice - with the A.M. shouting after us "You can't do this!".

The point of this anecdote is (a) if you have a job description and person specification then your employer is duty bound to stick to that. Anything you do over and above that is at your own discretion and you can specify if that is chargeable to them BUT (b) the devil is in the detail and it is a matter of interpretation.

It does sound as if you have a conflict on your hands as you and your boss have different ideas about your terms and conditions of employment. Do you have anything to refer to which can stand as evidence to clarify your position that you do not have to work outside designated hours? Are there others in your place of work who do the same job and do they have to work extra hours? Do you want/need the job badly enough to do what your boss requires?

P.S.

You don't have to be in a Trades Union to have entitlement to statutory breaks. Have a look here:-
[broken link removed]

Bullying?

Again this is a lay persons interpretation of the situation you find yourself in.

Setting unreasonable work targets or objectives is bullying.

An insolated incident however (depending of course on it's seriousness), might not be considered bullying by the company.

Keep a diary of incidents such as these, as without such a record you will have difficulty in proving your point should the need arise.

As he has already contractualy agreed your lunchhour, you are quite right in asking to negotiate.

You will have to balance:
The value to you of a vague promise of promotion in the company with what he unreasonably expects from you to acheive this.

A word of warning though:
As long as you work for this company even if you get a promotion when will enough be enough?
an hour extra in the evening?, coming in Sunday morning to get a head start on Monday?

Re: Bullying?

Unfortunately i think it says somewhere in my contract that i have to do anything they ask! At present Im working as a service/electronics engineer! Im not lazy and i think i actually work harder than most in this little place.
The boss is the type who doesnt have a life outside work. God love his wife and kid! He expects me to forget about life and work all the hours to impress him! Any promotion would mean me(25) superceding about 12 senior engineers who are there years (not impossible,but i know it wouldnt happen).
Re: Breaks-he hasn't actually told me to work my break as i would tell him to stick his job but hes constantly annoying me with the if you dont 'live to work' instead of 'working to live' you will stay where you are at the bottom of the ladder.
Time for change i reckon before i get done for murder!

Re: Bullying?

Hi ,
I worked in similar companies before where you were expected to work long hours whenever required, without pay.

Does your boss own the company or have a shareholding?

If he does , its ok for him to work long hours as he may sell the company in the future and make loads of money.

However there is no benefit to you unless you are developing technical skills on the job or something.
So I'd get a job somewhere else if I were you.

At the end of the day I never got any thanks for working extra hours. Its all forgotten about a few months later.

Re: Bullying?

Was there any mention of your work ethic in the initial interview process? Was there any indication that they were looking for extra commitment as well as skills? If there was a probationary period, how did you pass through it, if it is obvious now, that your performance is not satisfactory to your boss?

In the past I interviewed employees who promised the "sun earth and moon" relative to commitment, but whereby I would still have to step in and take over a job, as they had left at 5 on a Friday (in their company car!).

It's sometimes worth it if people (not necessarily you) , reflect on what they promised, in order to get a position.

Relative to the nature of your skills, I imagine that work (breakdown), and clients business hours cannot always be defined, so maybe it's a case of "being in the army and wearing the boots".

Re: Bullying?

Ive no problem working. Most of our customers work 9-5. If needs be id be prepared to drop out to a customers site late at night or at weekends! At present i dont have a car but i have offered before. Im not even an outhouse engineer. Im still a lowly in-house employee that deals with everyone elses crap!
I was just wondering whether or not he would be deemed as bullying by saying the only way you'll get on is by working late and working your breaks etc! I dont want to approach HR and get laughed at!

P.S. He's middle management (the worst kind). But we all are on a bonus scheme. I dont think i get enough as im cleaning up other peoples jobs a lot!

Re: Bullying?

This might be of some help deciding:




This information on working hours might also be of some use to you. But it depends on how much you want to potentially rock the boat.



Would it be any use to talk to others working there and see if they get/have gotten the same kind of rubbish.

Hi! remember you have statutory rights (contract of employment, conditions, etc) as an employee which can not be denied to you. Don't be afraid to make your position known. I understand that there could be practical issues to consider, especially in a small firm but you should insist on being taken seriously. If the shoe was on the other foot I am sure your boss would not be long letting you know. Anyway, if this has been your experience so far, is it really the type of environment in which you would want to remain/progress? Good luck

What exactly does your contract say on this issue?

You are an engineer and you have to put up with that kind of nonsense from some gobshite?

Look for another job and put a copys of http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767907698/ref=ase_portlandpatternrA/002-8783738-3088069?v=glance&s=books (this)
and
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0932633439/qid=1108116397/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-8783738-3088069?v=glance&s=books (this)

on your bosses desk- written by someone who is a lot more successful than your boss ever will be!

Thanks for all the replies!
I'll have to dig out my contract and see what it says!

Redbhoy,

One thing you should start doing straight away is keeping a log of everything this guys says ie. the date and the actual wording. If he is in fact such an a$$hole then you will be able in a short period of time to either a) show him how unreasonable he is being or b) show a 3rd party how unreasonable his behaviour is. The latter should qualify you for large amounts of cash.

Roy

my advice to you would be to plan getting a new job, i.e. bide your time there but try leave on good terms so that you will get a good reference.

But then the bullyboss just moves onto another victim? Sounds a bit like the Catholic church abuse and explains how it lasted so long.

Roy

bullying boss

Yes I agree it sounds like a catholic church abuse story but not everybody can afford to be a martyr (sp?). complaining may not get this person a satisfactory outcome and may affect future opportunities outside.

Re: bullying boss

initially it sounded like a bullying boss, but from further clarification from rhedboy (or redbhoy, or whatever) it seems like he is simply stating it the way it is in that organisation.

Put in the extra effort and it will be rewarded, put in the minimum and it will be noticed.

Redwhatever indicated that his boss hasn't actually asked him to work through lunches - it seems to be a perception issue.

I have previously told prospective employers that I would not consider a job where overtime (paid or unpaid) was a regular event. I don't mind working overtime, but I object to the situation where it is necessary in order to do a normal weeks work before the next week comes along. I left a company (didn't renew a contract) where this was the situation and where (as above) the boss was also owner of the company. He thought nothing of telling any and all clilents to ring him at any time of day or night if they had a problem - and he meant it. I was not about to start taking calls from people like this at any time of day or night. I also took to downing tools at 13:00, leaving the office and returning 59 minutes later. If anyone questioned me I told them I was meeting someone for lunch - they can't give out to you then since this is a perfectly reasonable thing to be doing and is of course a legitimate way to spend your lunch time.

Anyways, if the boss in this situation hasn't actually told redwhatever to work through lunch then there may not be a whole lot to go to HR about. If I was redwhatever I would be spending my spare time on the jobs website for a more suitable employer, but at the interview I would be asking whether overtime is a normal weekly event. I think the reality is that in most field engineering jobs it probably will be. In-house IT jobs may or may not have that element.

z

Re: bullying boss

Why the animosity? Whats your problem with my pen-name Zag, Wag, Fag or whatever? Is it a problem with your eyes or maybe just some missing/damaged neurons in your brain? I was only asking whether or not it was ok for him to be basically demanding all this extra work under threat of getting nowhere if i didnt do it. That to me is telling me to do it!
They told me in the interview for in-house engineer that there was no overtime. Paid or otherwise! 9am-5.30pm they said, with an hours lunch!

Re: bullying boss

No animosity - I just couldn't see your name when posting the reply and couldn't remember whether it was rhed or bhoy.

"They told me in the interview for in-house engineer that there was no overtime. Paid or otherwise! 9am-5.30pm they said, with an hours lunch" - on this basis you can do what I used to do as outlined above, head out for lunch at the appointed time and come back an hour later and they can't fault you. And look for another job. If the environment within the company is such that this level of overtime is expected then in practical terms a complaint to HR won't change the policy - unless they are about to hire more people to make up the difference in time worked.

I thought that he only said you would get nowhere in the company if you don't put in the extra work ? That's not the same as demanding you do the work. As you indicated yourself there are a number of people who have been there longer than you who are more likely to get a promotion first - I think he is just pointing out the reality of the way the company operates.

Good luck with the job or the jobhunt.

z