"Addicted to Money" TV Show - Appalling

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

Complainer said:

I can't watch him on TV, but his writing is reasonably good, and his track record is fairly sound.

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This is a serious problem.

People ask now why did we not listen to the economists who warned of the housing bubble and the economic crash? And I think that this is part of the reason. Their warnings were dressed up in such stupid, sensationalist language, that it would have been like taking the economic forecasts of the Sunday World seriously.

In today's Sunday Business Post Mc William's headline is "NAMA is Highway Robbery". I am just not going to read a sensationalist article like this, so I might be missing some valid points.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

To be fair to McWilliams, I have always enjoyed his writing and his appearances on the likes of Prime Time/Q&A. I do think he speaks a lot of sense.

Its only these type of programmes that he does badly, but perhaps he hasn't too much input into the 'look' of them?

I emailed his website about the way the programme was presented and to be fair to him, he emailed me back and was very understanding of my slaggin!! But he believed that the format and look of the show is important to attract as many people from a wide audience base as possible - and I'm sure it works.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

Brendan said:

People ask now why did we not listen to the economists who warned of the housing bubble and the economic crash?

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Many people did listen. I did and I took action to minimise the impact it would have on me. I really don't understand how anybody didn't see it coming.
McWilliams was an important prophet but I agree with you completely that his delivery was rubbish. Maybe that was his mistake; in appealing to the masses he was appealing to the people who couldn't do anything about it rather than the few who could? Most of us are just passengers, the most we can do is make sure we are close to the lifeboats when we see the iceberg coming and the captain(s) are asleep at the wheel.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

I agree with you Purple, I listened and got my lifevest on under my shirt...

I think the problem is that many (most?) people won't watch a dry Prime Time style program. The ones that do already know a lot about what has happened and why it happened. But people who have great financial debates are not the audience that TV appeals to. It is those that turn over to Spin103 when the talky-talky jaw-jaw comes on TodayFM that are the target. They are the ones it is most important to target, as they are the ones least likely to search out the information.

The program irritated me in the way that X-factor irritates me. So by that metric, it has probably reached its target in spades!

I did learn a couple of interesting things in it. I was aware of the meeting that took place between the SEC and the investment bankers where they abandoned leverage limits, but not aware of the tone of it. That was shocking. The other thing that was mind-boggling was Depfa bank. I looked at its annual report and couldn't understand how it had gone so badly bust - lending to school boards and municipalities - it seemed safe enough. But, what was to me a bombshell, that they were lending for pension speculation! My goodness. Shades of 1929.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

Brendan said:

This is a serious problem.

People ask now why did we not listen to the economists who warned of the housing bubble and the economic crash? And I think that this is part of the reason. Their warnings were dressed up in such stupid, sensationalist language, that it would have been like taking the economic forecasts of the Sunday World seriously.

In today's Sunday Business Post Mc William's headline is "NAMA is Highway Robbery". I am just not going to read a sensationalist article like this, so I might be missing some valid points.

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McWilliams was quoting Joseph Stigliz who got an impressive CV.

"When asked whether he would implement a Nama-style bailout for the banks, he responded: ‘‘No, this is the kind of highway robbery which we see happening all over the world, with guns pointing at the heads of the political leaders and the bankers claiming the sky will fall down and the economy will be devastated unless they get this money."

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

Brendan said:

This is a serious problem.

People ask now why did we not listen to the economists who warned of the housing bubble and the economic crash? And I think that this is part of the reason. Their warnings were dressed up in such stupid, sensationalist language

Click to expand...

Isn't it the nature of warnings that they tend to sound more sensationalistic than people advocating the status quo?

"Don't cross that bridge over the Malahide estuary, it's going to collapse!"

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

This program is total rubbish. Some poor guys in China save $2 a week and it's his money that the US is using to fund the US bank rescue fund TARP.This like the Monty Python sketch where a guy is told "the bank was robbed and unfortunately they took your shoebox!" (Forgets to tell us that most US bank are clammering to pay this money back).

How can a qualified ecconomist talk emotive nonsense like this.

I would like to know the names of these "Rich Bankers" we are bailing out.
Rothschild ? Rockerfeller? Is there an evil banking family that owns the Irish Banks. Soime character from a Batman Movie like the Penguin or the Joker.

As far as I know AIB/Bank of Ireland is owned by a load of shareholders Retired people whose savings have been wiped, pension funds, other companies with their own shareholders and yes some overseas investors. None of these were particularly evil people. In truth they were the ones who suffered most when a handful of eegits on their boards went on a gambling binge.

Toss the eegits in jail and leave them pennyless but don't advocate destroying the financial system. They don't care if you do. Ain't gonna bother them. A Few years in Mountjoy would bother them.

McWilliams has lost the plot here. Doing his best to put on a big budget drama. The first thing to go are the facts. Too complicated for gobbies like us to understand.

What you get is him zooming all over the world to make some simple points and in the last 5 minutes he pretends to reach some conclusions from the previous 50 mins ruminations. In fact the conclusions have nothing to do with the rambling drivel that he engages in while getting some great footage from Australia, Vegas, China, Iceland etc.,.

I really hope none of my TV licence money gets spent producing this trash.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

Amazing the amount of different places he went to for the programme. In one very short scene of about 40 seconds the location changed with nearly every sentance. One second he was on a bus full of people with livestock (looked like something from Chile), then in what looked like the snow planes of the Artic, then walking with his jacket over his shoulder in a desert etc etc.

The emphasis was on style over substance. I think he assumed his viewers had an attention span and intelligence level of a 10 year old (no disprespect to all you great 10 years olds!).

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

I think he takes too long to say a small amount but after watching last nights program I was trying to work out what I had learnt that I hadn't known before.

I didn't know that China was recessing. We were told at the start of the year that China would continue to boom - I think the figure quoted was 8% growth. So thats news to me.

He also predicts the US will default on its loans. That is a big prediction. they probably will - they are a super power and can do what they want at then end of the day.

I didnt know that China were bailing out the US with more money - I had thought the US were just making up printed money to withdraw at a later date.

His opinion that life goes on in defaulting countries is also interesting - I was wondering how Icelanders were coping.

Its hard to come up with original takes on things and brave to make predictions. Most economists dont - or thye stick to safe predictions based on historical behaviour, qualified with so many get out variables that they dont beome a prediciton at all.

Catchy headlines might be his trait but so what.
I'd say theres stuff in there that makes it worth watching and I bet most of you will continue to do so.

ps I would like to add that I predict the programme will be adapted for use in other countries by replacing the small Irish related bits with bits relating to the countries that buy the programme.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

yoganmahew said:

I think the problem is that many (most?) people won't watch a dry Prime Time style program. .

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Personally I allways thought Prime Time was sensationalist rubbish pushing small stories through a bias agenda. I never got it.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

sfag said:

ps I would like to add that I predict the programme will be adapted for use in other countries by replacing the small Irish related bits with bits relating to the countries that buy the programme.

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Really? What is there to buy? It has no "format" as such unlike other programmes such as Dragons Den, Who wants to be a Millionaire etc.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

sfag said:

Personally I allways thought Prime Time was sensationalist rubbish pushing small stories through a bias agenda. I never got it.

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Is there an economics program/documentary that you would recommend?

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

I listen to SBS, Sunday Supp, & matt cooper (today fm). Lots theres. AAM, Sunday Bus post, Tribune and Sunday Times.
The few times I watched Prime Time they 'bigged up' very small issues and tended to be a bit pios in their stake. I gave up pretty quickly.

The ascent of money was educational, interesting but historical.
I've watched loads of others.
In fact I'm addicted to them.

But you rarely get the bottom line on the most simplest of questions that interest me. - eg who got all the 'lost' trillions. I still dont know. Does America have to pay up its debts?. What will really happen if they dont, and so on.

Mostly they're all round up programmes. McWilliams is - but then it is aimed at everyone. If you wait long enough he'll provoke discussion with some original thinking (not neccessarily too wild) and that to me is worth something.


Predictions of the future are essential for the times we live on and historical behaviour may have relevance providing we are not now creating new economic science.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

aristotle25 said:

Really? What is there to buy? It has no "format" as such unlike other programmes such as Dragons Den, Who wants to be a Millionaire etc.

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A - because it is big budget with foriegn money involved. That has to be recouped.
B - Cos its structured to allow that. The Irish content is failry small. Its a world round up.

btw - even the popes children was aired on the BBC.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

David Mcwilliams is a thorn in the side of the vested interests that have ruined this country, many just don't like the opposition and will use whatever excuse to discredit. I'm glad I read his articles over the last few years which have been spot on, I believe he is passionate about what he is saying and is out for the good of the country unlike alot of the greedy scoundrel vested interests. This enthusiasm can come across as sensationalism but 'Nama is highway robbery'.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

crabbybear said:

David Mcwilliams is a thorn in the side of the vested interests that have ruined this country, many just don't like the opposition and will use whatever excuse to discredit. I'm glad I read his articles over the last few years which have been spot on, I believe he is passionate about what he is saying and is out for the good of the country unlike alot of the greedy scoundrel vested interests. This enthusiasm can come across as sensationalism but 'Nama is highway robbery'.

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Is that you David?

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

crabbybear said:

This enthusiasm can come across as sensationalism but 'Nama is highway robbery'.

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Thats another of the big questions that I have not yet seen addressed. What is the real reason we choose Nama?
It is a deal where the investors citizens pay for the losses of the investors and creditors who gambled & lost but wont be out a penny.
Sorry, I know its been discussed before but I cant understand why Irelands creditors arn't asked to take a hit on their gamble. If Irish banks were reckless then those who lent money to them were too?.

It does look like highway robbery. Mc Williams is not alone in thinking that. Surely thats not sensationalist.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

sfag said:

thats another of the big questions that i have not yet seen addressed. What is the real reason we choose nama?
It is a deal where the investors citizens pay for the losses of the investors and creditors who gambled & lost but wont be out a penny.
Sorry, i know its been discussed before but i cant understand why irelands creditors arn't asked to take a hit on their gamble. If irish banks were reckless then those who lent money to them were too?.

It does look like highway robbery. Mc williams is not alone in thinking that. Surely thats not sensationalist.

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+1

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

Brendan said:

This is a serious problem.

People ask now why did we not listen to the economists who warned of the housing bubble and the economic crash? And I think that this is part of the reason. Their warnings were dressed up in such stupid, sensationalist language, that it would have been like taking the economic forecasts of the Sunday World seriously.

In today's Sunday Business Post Mc William's headline is "NAMA is Highway Robbery". I am just not going to read a sensationalist article like this, so I might be missing some valid points.

Click to expand...

Is the issue not that a calm opposing voice is just not heard (and certainly not listened to) when the crowd and their chosen prophets are all shouting in the other direction? So, the 'drama' level is upped to get people listening. But then the opposers just become 'cranks' and 'non-believers'. I'm sure there were plenty of calm voices during the bubble that forecast the crash but no-one wanted to listen.

Re: Addicted to Money - Appalling

Rockahoola said:

Is the issue not that a calm opposing voice is just not heard (and certainly not listened to) when the crowd and their chosen prophets are all shouting in the other direction? So, the 'drama' level is upped to get people listening. But then the opposers just become 'cranks' and 'non-believers'. I'm sure there were plenty of calm voices during the bubble that forecast the crash but no-one wanted to listen.

Click to expand...

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