Budapest District VIII

budapest said:

What are their priorities - location/space/price/green spaces/etc.?

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Have been looking a bit more on various sites during the week. For location, I'd say anywhere in V, VI, or VII. For space, obviously the more the better but I think a more traditionally 'irish' layout is important too, the last thing we'd want is to have to use a bedroom as a sitting room, it's just not something one could get accustomed to. Something overlooking the central courtyard would be great as they're really beautiful... in fact the more traditional features (the wooden floors on the two I linked to are a good example) the better!

I have purchased a 1 bed apartment with parking at the below development.

The City Center Park, as its name reflects also is located in the central area of the city, in the 8th district of Budapest, at arms’ length to Blaha Lujza Square, under 18-20-22 Tolnay Lajos Str., and 17-19-23 Fecske Str.

paying 83000 euros ready june 2007 , does anyone the area or development.

or is it a god bad buy

You have already committed to purchasing but are only now wondering if it is a "good" buy?!?

Hi Dingdong,

The area is not popular with locals. Blaha Lujza Ter and Rakoczi Ter both have bad connotations. Rakoczi Ter in particular is associated with a history of prostitution and drug dealing. It's much better now but it will probably take a generation or two for it to reinvent itself.

Neither is this part of District VIII particularly central and I'm not sure why they've called it 'City Center Park' but it is quite close to the 4/6 tram route, which operates as a fourth metro line. There are several new developments in this area but I know of some people who have been able to rent out their apartments for reasonable rents. However, that said, I don't know of anyone personally who would be interested in living in this part of town.

What size is the apartment? Is it street facing? Balcony, parking included?

Budapest
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Note to Corco,

I, as Member "Budapest", have also lived in Budapest for quite some time now. Although there appears to be some merit in the advise that has been given, as any real estate market..there will be opportunities in every corner of every great city. The hard part is to find it.

In my opinion, if there is really an opportunity to buy something in the District V for approx. 60K Euros, then by all means..go for it (or tell me about it and i'll grab it myself!)
. That however, doesn't appear to be realistic (in my opinion), unless you want a ground floor apartment that needs to be completly renovated and/or is 25-40 sqm.

There is a new project that is currently being released in Budapest, District VIII, and will be the largest rehabilitation project in Cenral Europe. Would i buy there? Probably not, as most of the agents that will get their hands on that project will certainly have a "foreign premium". however, it will certainly effect the worth of the immediate surroundings.

Just a thought.

Hi xpatnhungary,

Welcome to AAM. I don't know how familiar you are with the new build market over here in Budapest, but from my experience in talking with estate agents, property journalists, developers, locals, etc, it's become more obvious to me that many of the current developments are aimed at the foreign investor and the prices of these have little to do with the local market. Developments in the rougher areas of town such as the 'City Center' in District VIII are not appealing from a local perspective and this counts for a lot in terms of who will rent the place and more importantly, who will buy it when the current investor wishes to sell. Of course, this is an opinion and not a fact but I really can't see the merit of paying 83,000 euro for a smallish new build apartment in a dodgy part of town when you can pay the same for a fully renovated apartment of 1.5 times the size in District V. I think that to use your figure of 60,000, you can purchase a large two room apt. in a good area in District VI for example and for the quoted figure of 83,000, you can currently buy a large two/three room apartment in a very good area of District V.

Budapest

Hi Budapest,

Thank you for the kind welcome. I agree with your assessment of "most" new developments/developers, their target audience and respective pricing schemes. I have some knowledge of the "new-build" market here in Budapest, as I am an investor here myself. Most new projects here lack creativity, style and are often overpriced (especially if you go through a foreign agent), however, because of the lack of renovated apartments (up-to-date piping, lifts, bad layouts, etc.) there are still good investments to be realised in the new-built segment. My suggestion/practice is if/when i buy an apartment in a newly-built (off-plan) project, my intention is to sell that apartment before completion. Developers do not always give this option, but if you push for it..7 of 10 times you can get this agreement in the preliminary agreement. Therefore, you pay 20-25% upfront and re-sell before actually paying the remaining 75-80% balance. I would not recommend this unless you have a thoroughly-planned marketing strategy for exit.

There is also an under-supply of luxurious apartments in Budapest. Therefore, the method of buying an apartment in horrible condition then fixing it up nicely is appealing (caution: must first check if the layout may be altered. ie. pipings, structural walls). I am in the midst of starting a company here in Hungary with my business partner. We will buy apartments in need of renovation in ideal areas.

The 60,000 Euro apartment(s) that you are referring to on Nagymezo seems quite the deal. I am however a bit cautious. The prospective apartment you are speaking of must either be on the ground or first floor (if so, it is not marketable), the layout can not be properly altered or the lighting is bad (something that can not be changed but affects everything). By all means, if you have something at that price, please let me know.

Xpatnhungary

Hi Xpatnhungary,

Best of luck with the new venture. Sounds like a great idea! I know of various people over here who started out doing this but have now moved on to buying and renovating entire buildings!

I agree with what you've said about new builds. There are some good investments but they are few and far between. In my opinion, these poorly-located new apartments will become obsolete as more centrally-located classic apartments are renovated.

I agree with you too about there being a lack of quality/luxurious apartments but there are some - they're just that bit harder to locate. I'm not an estate agent but I am familiar with the market over here and about two months ago, I viewed a large renovated one bed apartment in a beautiful building on Nagymezo utca on the second floor (courtyard view but bright as it had windows on three sides) for slightly less than 60,000 euro. I also know of another user of AAM, who recently purchased a large impeccibly renovated two bed 80sqm apartment overlooking a garden in a renovated building in the embassy district of Andrassy for less than 100,000 euro. Compared with 80,000-100,000 for an average smallish one bed new build apartment in many parts of the city, this seems like a good deal.

Budapest

It sounds like they got a pretty good deal, depending on the amount of capital they needed to fix the place up afterwards. I am dealing on a bit of a different market. My partner and I have very good contacts here in the expat community (primarily Embassies and Multinational Companies). They often struggle to find high quality apartments in Pest for their employees/diplomats (lack of product and lack of service from letting agencies).

Although a great percentage of this group prefer Buda as a residence (they are often told before they come that this is the best place to live), there are now more and more people looking towards Pest. People that are only here for a 2-3 year period want to make the most of their time here (feel apart of the city). If you live in Buda, it is very exhausting getting to/from work and to/from pubs/restuarants. It is a beautiful area, but lacks entertainment.

Our first 2 investments here were in classical buildings on the Pest side. Both are completely renovated (one by us and the other was done prior to our purchase). It took 1 and 2 months respectively to find expat tenants. Both apartments are leased for a 2-year period (1,000 & 1,200 euros/month). After all renovations, furnishings, taxes, legal fees, insurance, etc., we are experiencing a 4% net yield. Not outstanding, but sufficient to cover our loans. We are thinking about selling these now (as a package) to free up capital for additional purchases.

As a whole, this specific segment of the market is small..but attainable with the right contacts. Just one example: American and British Embassies have budgets of 1,500 - 4,500 Euros/month for their foreign staff (depending on position).

Hi Budapest,
I have just joined the AAM site this morning and have been reading through some of your helpful comments regarding investing in Budapest.
Last year, I purchased an apartment (off plans) in dist. V111 overlooking the river Danube (Prestige Towers) close to the Duna Plaza shopping complex.
The development is due for completion end of this year and the apartments are being marketed as luxurios apartments targeted at corporate tenants. I have been out to Budapest twice in the last year to overview things and am quite happy with the development.
Now, due to another pending personal project, I am considering "fliping" the apartment as I have not yet signed the final contract. I have only signed the preliminary contract and have until end April to sell on without being liable for stamp duty.
I would be grateful if you had any thoughts or advice on this idea as I do know that there is another large development in progress nearby which could possibly impact on future rental prospects on my apartment.

Hi xpatnhungary. That apt that I mentioned on Andrassy is totally renovated. It needs no extra capital for renovation and is extremely well located in the embassy district. An ideal tenant would be one of the embassies or companies on this stretch of Andrassy ut.

Hi PAB. The 'Prestige Towers' development in XIII is likely to be a good investment in my opinion as it's at the very top end of the market, a segment which most people will agree is lacking in Budapest. You should at least talk with some of the letting agencies about rental prospects before selling as it should give you a good return.

Budapest

Hi All,

Would anyone have any advice or opinion on whether District xiii (the end behind the Zoo) is a good area for investment? I am looking at a 2 bed with Parking for c.91k? Appreciate any input.

Hi bpi,

There is a lot of construction close to the Danube in this part of XIII, both of an industrial and residential nature. Many people are saying that this is a good thing and that all of the new developments will rent for good rents as they will be close to the new 'business quarter'. There's obviously no guarantee of this though and my worry is that there may be more new apartments in this area than tenants. Nobody really knows how successful this area will be in years to come. If you furnish well and if the apartment is quiet and relatively convenient, then you should be able to rent it out. There is a lack of high quality apartments in Budapest at the minute and new builds in this part of District XIII are currently popular with tenants.

Budapest

BPI,

If you are talking about behind the zoo, you are certainly not referring to an apartment that is along the Danube River. This is an area of the 13th district which has a way to go, in terms of attractiveness. That area is bombarded with new projects (13th District has more than double the amount of new developments than any other District in Budapest). The main reason for that is because in the 80's this area was industrialised, and most of the buildings (plots) are not protected and have been released from the government. Since there is limited space (plots, unprotected buildings) in downtown Budapest, developers (especially foreign developers...Irish and Isreali) are keen to buy plots as close to the city center as possible (XIII, XIV, VIII, and the shady part of VII) and market them as "future" hot spots.

Not what i would do with 90k. If you want something new, i would rather spend that money on a quality location..even if you only get a one bedroom. If you are not fixated on new apartments, then you may still be able to get a 2 bedroom for the above budget (city center, courtyard facing or noisy area). Really depends on your cash flow.

Xpatnhungary

I agree with you xpatnhungary. I wouldn't spend my money here either but I've seen certain new build apartments in what I would consider dodgy parts of the city rent fairly easily. However, I don't really see capital appreciation prospects as being great for this part of XIII as it's neither central nor easy to get to.

I think you can definitely get a good two bedroom apartment in the city centre for 90,000-100,000, particularly if you move slightly out of District V to a quiet street in VI.

Another question for budapest??? I have purchased a bed bedroom apartment with balcony in district X1. The name of the apartments are White Castle and they are located in Fehervari Street. I also purchased an indoor car space. The cost of the 2 came to 67k approx. This was purchased in feb 04 and is now at the handing over stage....I bought off the plans and have never been over. I know this is a no no, but i was took in by all the hype at the time. A bit late now to ask, but in your opinion, is this a poor investment?? I have in my mind rent in the region of 300 euro?? Is this feasible??

Hi eddie,

Can I draw your attention to posting guideline 14?

.....................addressing specific queries to individual contributors rather than to the wider community in general may have the effect of limiting the number of useful responses that you receive rather than expediting things.

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is bratislava(slovakia )near to budapest? seems to be a lot of the big irish developers investing there.