Total National Spend on Healthcare

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Purple

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We spend an average of just under €4'000 per person on healthcare. That's a total figure, i.e. both public and private spending. Only the USA, Norway, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Canada, Netherlands and Austria spend more than us. I was under the impression that the Swiss spend less per capita than us but I was wrong.
Incredibly countries with vastly superior healthcare systems such as France, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, Finland and Japan spend less per capita than us, some of them substantially less.
Only 6 countries spend more than us per capita on public health, with the USA and Norway spending substantially more than anyone else.

When will the national dialogue on the heath move from the nonsensical notion that it is underfunded to the reality that is it structurally defective and run for the benefit of those delivering the service rather than those receiving it?


Source
 
Hi Purple.

I brought up this issue a while back:



Approx 40% of tax revenues were going to fund the health service in 2009.

I see from here:

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/exchequerstatements/2010/Enddecstatement.pdf

That the budget has been slashed by 10% from 2009 levels in 2010 (Note 4: Health and Children). I'm assuming there was ample fat to minimise the pain caused by this reduction.

I would be genuinely surprised if there are still people out there who believe more funding is needed rather than a better use of the funding available.
 
Purple said:
Incredibly countries with vastly superior healthcare systems such as France, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, Finland and Japan spend less per capita than us, some of them substantially less.

Source
Click to expand...

Anyone know what health insurance costs are and how it works in a country with a well run health system?

I spend €2,500 a year in health insurance for my family which seems high. I don't mind paying it for a good service but I know at one stage we wanted an appointment for a speech therapist for one of my children and we were given a 22 month waiting list. Totally unacceptable.
 
Shawady said:
Anyone know what health insurance costs are and how it works in a country with a well run health system?
Click to expand...
In countries with a national health insurance scheme anyone who can’t afford their own insurance has it paid for by the state but from the healthcare providers perspective everyone is a private patient; no two tier healthcare system.
Looking at the graph it seems that private healthcare spending accounts for around 20% of our total healthcare spending. In other words private citizens are subsidising the public health system to the tune of €800 for every person in the state. This does seem very high.

Shawady said:
I spend €2,500 a year in health insurance for my family which seems high.
Click to expand...
In effect you are subsidising the state by paying for a service again that you already pay for through your taxes.
 
So the public system bills the private healthcare enormous amounts for the services they use..correct?
If so where is all this money going?
 
thedaras said:
So the public system bills the private healthcare enormous amounts for the services they use..correct?
If so where is all this money going?
Click to expand...

Wages and other costs plus a margin which in effect is a subsidy from the private health sector the rest of the public health sector.

Please note that this is not a rant against the public sector. The problems in the Irish healthcare system are not confined to the public section. The problem lies with the funding structures, not the funding sources.
 
Ok, so what happens if a huge amount of people pull out of the VHI?
How will the public system manage if this huge amount of money is withdrawn?
 
Our healthcare plan covers us for semi-private care.
What has happened to us a couple of times is that we have needed to see a specialist/consultant for one of the children and the waiting time for semi-private has been so long that we have just paid to go private anyway.
 
Shawady said:
Anyone know what health insurance costs are and how it works in a country with a well run health system?

I spend €2,500 a year in health insurance for my family which seems high. I don't mind paying it for a good service but I know at one stage we wanted an appointment for a speech therapist for one of my children and we were given a 22 month waiting list. Totally unacceptable.
Click to expand...

If you are with VHI you will be paying a lot more now.
 
thedaras said:
Ok, so what happens if a huge amount of people pull out of the VHI?
How will the public system manage if this huge amount of money is withdrawn?
Click to expand...

The people who pull out of private health care benefit from the extra money in their pockets but lose out in terms of what they can expect to get in hospital (waiting times, private rooms, etc).

The state inevitably will pick up some of the tab that had been paid by private patients so it is worse off.

Hospitals will inevitably suffer from reduced funding.

Those with no private health care will be at less of a disadvantge than before i.e. more equality between patients, but worse off in absolute terms as the hospitals have less money.
 
DerKaiser said:
Those with no private health care will be at less of a disadvantge than before i.e. more equality between patients, but worse off in absolute terms as the hospitals have less money.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's called the socialist model.
 
Purple,

here is a link to some OECD health spending data:

[broken link removed]

Probably the same as your source, but I always like to use the primary data.
 
Had a similar experience on my first child, discharged myself early against medical advice as I could not take being in a public ward any more without any sleep, the constant noise and heat.

Had paid for a private consultant who was on holidays when I went into labour. Had paid (and continue to pay) all my working life for private health care. Ended up in the same position as everyone else in the public health care system. Hospitals are the great levellers.
 
Vanilla said:
Had paid for a private consultant who was on holidays when I went into labour.
Click to expand...

I dont understand how the private consultant can keep the entire fee if they are not available for the birth? OK - you see him/her for appointments during the pregnancy, but surely the birth is the most important time youd want the consultant there?
 
I agree completely with Purple.
I wrote an article about 4 years ago advocating that everyone with private health care stops paying for it. The reasons for my argument were numerous. But the main thrust of the argument was that it would end the two tier system, and force the government to do something about our appalling health system which is unfit for a developed country.
Now it looks like economic factors will bring about mass withdrawal from private health care, so how will the department of health respond?
The chance to do something with our dreadful health system was blown when the HSE was introduced, so I have to say I'd have no great faith in our leaders ability to get things right now.
 
shnaek said:
I agree completely with Purple.
I wrote an article about 4 years ago advocating that everyone with private health care stops paying for it.
Click to expand...

I've also advocated here that private medical insurance should be banned. This would force everyone from the top down through the public system. I would imagine that the great and the good at the top (including TDs, ministers etc) would kick up enough to ensure radical reform in the HSE overnight.
 
It amazes me that so much is allocated to the Healthcare budget in a country where as much as 50% of the population is supposedly covered by Private Health Insurance.
It can only lead to further strains and reductions in service provided when an increasing number fall back on the public system through inability to pay the spiraling costs of private health insurance.
 
Isn't semi-private a bit of an oxymoron anyway? You are either in a private room or else you have to share with other people.

The Irish healthcare system is a shambles. From having to pay for GP visits and A&E to trolley waits and waiting lists.

A nation should be judged on how it treats its most vulnerable.
 
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