Rip Off Republic - Episode #2 - review

We can cringe at Eddie's delivery without necessarily (completely) disagreeing with his message. There's no need for anyone to be told that if they don't like it they should run the country or other similar guff. If anything is going to change, then there will have to be far more "pulling together" in this country. I think the consumer and the majority of businesses are actually on the same side and that very few are part of any "golden circle" that benefit from dodgy/outdated government policy.

I think the way this country is being mismanaged on the money front is a scandal but I think using the price of a pint or excise on a bottle of champagne (discretionary/luxury items) trivialises the issue and probably won't get people wound up enough to take action. I don't think the current state of affairs is one bit funny and I don't want people to laugh it off and say "that's us mad Irish for ya". I do believe that he needs to push better/harder-hitting buttons to spur his audience into meaningful action. I think most people would be more outraged if they were reminded about how Joe Duffy could organise funds/wherewithall to get every patient off trollies in a Dublin hospital (can't remember which one) but the offer was refused by the government.

I know it's not up to Eddie to propose solutions/action but if he cares enough to take on the issues, surely he doesn't want it all to fall flat on its face as soon as his TV series is over. Hopefully he has something in store for the finale and is building to a crescendo. And of course, the possiblity remains, that the jokey formula might just work and I'll be glad if it does - I just have a sinking feeling.

The really depressing part is that I don't know how change is actually going to happen. Even if we march in the street and tear down the Dail, what alternatives are there? The current government isn't up to much but there is no saviour waiting in the wings to straighten the whole thing out either. Still though, I'm still glad Eddie got the gig or that there is a gig at all.

Rebecca

Thats well said Rebecca.

I think some of the posters on this thread would rather Eddie never produced this show at all. I am disillusioned reading some of the posts.

The first step is the hardest. Hopefully we can unite and find a solution.

I like the style too. I don't see why anyone would think it was condescending.
It reminded me of the sketch Dermot Morgan used to do where P. Flynn was a school teacher. To the extent that it was condescending it was for a reason.

It's a brilliant idea to mix satire with a Money Program and unlike a lot of home grown shows I think they pull it off.

-Rd

Janet said:

I'm undecided about his presenting style but have to admit that to me it wasn't so much condescending as it was more tongue in cheek! I felt he was presenting in that way to emphasise even more the ridiculousness of some of the issues he was talking about.

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I totally agree with you on this one Janet.

And as for the contributor who said he watched because his mother in law "told" him to, and then complains about the tone of the programme......a very bad case of kettles and pots I think

For someone not trained in TV or Journalism, I think Eddie Hobbs is providing a great service on behalf of consumers. It's just a pity it's not an Autumn show. He even showed his talent for mimicry last night, taking off our "Minister for Fun", which gave me a laugh. No one is disputing that the Ireland of 2005 is infinitely better than it was in the 1980s but that is not the issue. EH's is showing that the vested interests have the full backing of our politicians in maintaining high prices. Why not - that means more tax and VAT for the ever expanding state coffers to waste on pet projects that will garner votes.

Momma Harney took on the Taxi Drivers lobby and won (as did consumers) but "Big Mac" McDowell had to back down when the Vintners' lobby, who have the government in their pockets, objected. And Fine Gael sided with Bertie's bluster. Momma Harney should now stop telling us to "shop around". A pub licence costs €180,000 compared to a Cafe Bar license that would only have cost €5,000. No way can "Joe/Josephine Soap" get in on that lucrative act. It's obvious that maintaining the status quo for the vested interests is far more important than competition in the interest of consumers.

Eddie also disparaged the repetitious claim that we are "a low tax economy". Am I the only one who thinks that statement is one of the greatest frauds? We are not - when compared with similar European countries due to our high indirect taxes which, significantly, represent a higher proportion of the income of the lower paid.

When PAYE was hitting 73% in the 1980s, PAYE workers also had to pay Property Tax on relatively modest homes. Now that homes costing multiples of millions are not uncommon, where is the Property Tax such owners could well afford to pay? Recent reports say that our Universities are starved for funds, yet the children of the very wealthy are scott free while there has been no real increase in the number of children from low incomes families getting to third level. The rising tide has not lifted all boats so we need more prisons to house those excluded from participation in our "aren't we great" society.

I think this debate is starting to have a little more balance now and if nothing else Eddie Hobbs and "Rip off Ireland" is prompting this debate. The ineffectiveness of (the bulk of) our elected representatives is surely one the country's greatest downfalls. In the case of McDowell alone, his climbdown vis a vis Cafe Bars represented a real blow for democracy and the right to choice and competition, even if it relates back to drink consumption. As a person who rarely frequents pubs now I would have liked the opportunity to have a light lunch and a glass of wine in a moderately priced "Cafe Bar".

Am I the only one who thinks that statement is one of the greatest frauds?

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No you're not. It's a point that's been made here and elsewhere a lot.

Certainly tax on business is low. And that has certainly helped create a lot of jobs.
We don't know how stable those jobs are time will tell, but overall it has been good.
It's a great example of not taxing things that you want to happen, like creating jobs.

Direct tax on employment is not high, but given the startling jump from 20% to 42% with no middle ground, it's not fair to call it low tax either. I'd call it extreme tax rather than high or low.

Non Income related taxes, like motor tax, VRT, bin charges, VAT, Stamp Duty, levies etc. These are a real problem becuase by allowing the government to keep income tax "low" we end up with the worst off people paying more than their fair share.
It's THE fundamental problem that I have with things at the moment.

I've always said that I'd accept a 95% tax rate if I got value for the money. We buy the myths too easily. They say low tax economy and we swallow it without fully thinking through if that's right.

They say "we're spending €x Billion on Health" and we accept that as progress when it's nothing of the sort. Spending money is a bad thing, a necessary evil to produce results. The results are the key. If there were results worth speaking of they wouldn't waste time talking about how much those results cost.

If things were really going well in Health you would never hear a Minister say "We're spending €x Billion in Health". They'd say, "There are now no patients sleeping on trollies in A&E".

Spending more money and not getting results is the worst of both worlds. It leads to high tax and low services. Poor value for your tax contribution.

There are good stories. Education is good, despite underfunding. Despite holes in the portacabins and the odd close shave with rats I got a really excellent primary, secondary, and third level education.

-Rd

How about we all go and get some good value alcoholic takeaway and reconvene here at 1am to continue this discussion...

Lads - you are missing the point. The comparison with 20 years ago is very relevant.

The reason things are expensive in Ireland is because we have a booming economy. We have full employment. We have huge profitability. We have very low taxes on profits and income. There is massive demand, so prices rise to meet that demand.

I made the comparison with 20 years ago, because it seems to me that most of you were happy to be unemployed or to have left the country. Prices were lower because incomes were low. You object to me making this comparison with 20 years ago, but you made no objection to Eddie comparing the price of cement in Ireland today with the price in Germany today. It's a similar argument. Would you prefer to live in a booming economy like Ireland or a bust economy like Ireland of 20 years ago or Germany of today?

Don't confuse high prices with rip-offs. Rename it High Price Ireland. I agree with you. This is very important because it helps us to focus on the real Rip-Offs. We can start with Rainyday's list:

- How many Irish rip-off taxpayers by not paying the proper taxes on their rental income, or their nixers income?
- How many Irish rip-off taxpayers by conspiring to get reduces prices from the landlord/tradesman via tax evasion?
- How many Irish rip-off insurance companies (aind other customers of insurance companies) by lying on their car insurance proposals about who is actually the main driver of the car and what address the car is kept at (to get the benefit of 'country rates' over Dublin rates).
- How many Irish rip-off owners of creative content (CD's / DVD's / software) by illegal copying (and keep some the paramilitaries in pocket money while doing so)?
- How many Irish ripped off other taxpayers in the 80's and the 90's by keeping their cash income off-shore or in bogus non-resident accounts?
- How many Irish rip off other taxpaayers in the naughties by keeping their hot money off-shore in property in Turkey/Croatia/Bulgaria etc?

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Part of the reason, some of our taxes are high is that they are not being borne equally. Tax evasion is the biggest rip-off in Ireland. Insurance fraud is probably the next biggest. Fortunately, both are reducing a lot.

The biggest monopoly is the monopoly of the trade unions. The Dart workers will probably go on strike later this week because they want compensation for driving longer trains. They have a monopoly on driving these trains. You and I will end up paying them compensation for the additional responsibilities involved.

And there didn't seem to be much critical reaction to the farmers occupying a meat plant for having the cheek to import beef from South America. Or the crazy sugar regime we have in Europe to protect Irish farmers.

Apart from sending nappies to the Minister or drinking tap water, no one has suggested anything positive. Why not set up a restaurant or import cement or open a pub?

daltonr - what I really cannot understand is that you have been harping on about how horrible Ireland is to live in compared to every other country in the World and yet you are still here. I think Ireland is a great place to live. I would much prefer to be employed and paying high prices than unemployed and getting things cheaply.

Brendan

Brendan said:

The biggest monopoly is the monopoly of the trade unions. The Dart workers will probably go on strike later this week because they want compensation for driving longer trains. They have a monopoly on driving these trains. You and I will end up paying them compensation for the additional responsibilities involved.

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Brendan I have read plenty of criticism of the DART drivers, and let anyone come on here and argue that they are entitled to 'compensation' and I will galdly tell them what I think they are entitled to-SFA. If they go on strike, I will be rooting for the government and IE to win the day. I get the DART every morning, it takes me around 25 minutes to get to work. The bus would probably take an hour, the car an hour and half. But I would gladly crawl the 9 miles from where I live to get to work if there is a strike, if it meant that these gangsters didn't get a penny more than the €48,000 a year they already 'earn'.

Jister said:

I know a village which once had 2 pubs but both have now been closed. So the population are being forced to drink and drive. More deaths, more accidents, more burden on the hospitals, more expense for you and me, higher taxes, more ripoffs.

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Why are they being forced to drink and drive? Who has a gun to their head forcing them to drink and drive? Do they not have the option of a) Not drinking or b) Designating a driver?

I'm not claiming to be able to fully assess quality of life in a brief visit, but I think the level of contentment and pride that citizens have about their country is a reasonable barometer or Quality of Life

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Last week, the Irish Times asked a number of foreign tourists if the high prices in Ireland would deter them from returning. Not one of them said yes. I thought this was interesting. We must be doing something right – perhaps we don’t appreciate what we have?

I really like living in Ireland – that is not to say that I couldn’t or wouldn’t like to live elsewhere. It’s fantastic to see cities towns and villages which were drab and dreary and run down now doing so well and looking so attractive. Communities that were wiped out to emigration – an entire football team in a small West Clare village is one statistic which I recall – now reaping the benefits of a wealthy and more sophisticated and confident society.



I bought a wild salmon a couple of weeks ago at €2.50 a lb at a quay – straight from the river. Local towns have markets at weekends where we can buy fantastic fresh local and organic produce if we don’t feel like growing our own. I went to a fruit farm today and the woman who runs it threw in .5kg extra for me to eat on my way home. In a restaurant, Ely, as it happens, we were asked if we would mind moving table for dessert. We said no. We were not billed for the dessert. In another restaurant in Kilcolgan during RaceWeek when by the law of averages prices should increase, they forgot to include coffees on the bill. We were told not to worry about it. These are a few of my recent experiences.

It’s not all doom and gloom.

Of course I would prefer if prices were lower for the goods which I consume, but as Brendan has suggested, I would gladly pay these prices than return to the miserable 80s.

Maybe we should look around us and see what we can celebrate about ouselves (we are helping to create the current environment) and our country rather than knocking it as a Rip-off Republic.

Marion

Brendan said:

Would you prefer to live in a booming economy like Ireland or a bust economy like Ireland of 20 years ago or Germany of today?Brendan

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I don't think you can compare Germany of today to Ireland 20 years ago in fairness! Germany today has great roads and rail, spotless towns, amazing architecture, beautifully restored buildings, top class hospitals etc. It may have high unemployment, but they will get this under control. Also, unemployment benefit there is massive. They get a generous proportion of the wages they used to earn. Ireland was far from that in the 80s.

Some prices in Ireland are simply high. That's fair enough. But there is certainly rip off elements - many created by government policy influenced by vested interests. I am sure this happens in other countries too, but like I said earlier - I'd prefer compare us with the best rather than the worst.

I'd like to point out also that I still like living in Ireland. There is plenty to like about it. But there is plenty more to improve in it. That's why I give Eddies programme the thumbs up.

So if we're convinced that every petrol station/restaurant/pub/taxi/dentist etc is ripping off the consumer and creaming it, why aren't we all rushing out to open our own petrol station/restaurant/pub/taxi/dentist etc?

The reason things are expensive in Ireland is because we have a booming economy. We have full employment. We have huge profitability. We have very low taxes on profits and income.

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However, as soon as we go to spend our taxed income, we find ourselves forking out for a whole plethora of additional compounded taxes.

There is massive demand, so prices rise to meet that demand.

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When the suppliers' costs change the supply curve will shift. Extra taxes = higher prices.

Taxes on profits are low (and I agree fully with that policy) but to say tax is low on income is patently not true when indirect taxes and charges are added. Our taxation system is inequitably skewed, falling disproportionately heavier on those with relatively low incomes. Inevitably this results in workers, e.g. the DART workers, who pay exactly the same for the services all of us enjoy, seeking wage hikes to lessen the disparity. Doesn't everyone knew we are an amazingly creative people. BTW, I am not an apologist for DART workers or any other essential service providers.

There is massive demand, so prices rise to meet that demand.

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That's terrific - cost isn't an issue for those who can afford high prices, but what about those, the majority, trying to set up house and live a reasonable life style? If we need a plumber, an electrician, a creche or any other essential service, there is no choice but to pay the price demanded. Food, heat and housing are not discretionary spends.

I'm not aware of anyone suggesting that all petrol stations, restaurants, taxis etc are ripping us off. It has been well publicised that the margins in those businesses are very tight due to high rents and wage costs compared to neighbouring countries. In my opinion, it is our greedy government's high indirect taxation policy that is the root cause of us being and feeling ripped off. Isn't that what Eddie Hobbs program has shown us? It is the remit of government to ensure we live in an equitable society and not to bow down to the demands and whims of vested interests.

Like many others who post here, I enjoy living in Ireland but that doesn't mean I and others can't object to or criticise what we perceive as wrongs in our society. We can all mention good experiences but we wouldn't feel the need to do so if it were the norm. The reality is, it isn't for too many.

PS I paid €22/kilo for wild salmon recently in a good fish shop in Dublin and didn't feel ripped off. The price was €35 in the local shop so I voted with my feet. And the food in the Ely Wine Bar is probably the best I have eaten in years as well as being the cheapest. Definitely a very welcome exception.

Here's a thought about our great tourist authority - we are having so many complaints about the general standards of eating out now in Ireland - why don't we take a lead from the Spanish? In their push for tourism they formulated the concept of the 'fixed price menu' - oh yes, you say we have that here too ...- but I don't think that we do. What we need is the Catering Colleges to take the lead and compile a very basic set of menus for the ordinary cafes and restaurants so that we create some standards for everyone to follow. Not everyone is a potential Michelan star restauranteur.

There is some great value and quality to be had in terms of fixed price lunch specials around Dublin. For example, I work up the road from Romano's on Capel Street where you can get a starter, main course (home made pasta made from organic flour and eggs or pizza made with organic flour) and tea/coffee for €9.95. There's a Vietnamese restaurant behind the Central Bank called Hosen which does a similar lunch (starter, main and tea/coffee) for €10.80. I have seen similarly priced lunch specials elsewhere around town but I can't vouch for the quality of many others right now.

I made the comparison with 20 years ago, because it seems to me that most of you were happy to be unemployed or to have left the country.

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Nobody other than yourself and Jem have even mentioned the 1980's. Let's lay this to rest once and for all. I don't think Ireland was a better place in the 1980's. The quality of life is better now for most people. Perhaps for all people, I don't know of any group for whom life has gotten worse, but they may be out there.

Prices were lower because incomes were low. You object to me making this comparison with 20 years ago, but you made no objection to Eddie comparing the price of cement in Ireland today with the price in Germany today.

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Because Germany Today and Ireland today are both TODAY. Why not compare Ireland to Ireland of 100 years ago and really knock us out with how great a country it is?

It's a similar argument. Would you prefer to live in a booming economy like Ireland or a bust economy like Ireland of 20 years ago or Germany of today?

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Given a choice between Ireland of the 80's and Germany of Today I know where I'd like to Live. Am I allowed make that comparison?

Don't confuse high prices with rip-offs.

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Don't confuse low prices with value. This discussion for me is not about prices it's about poor value. I don't believe excessive profits are rampant. I do believe that Tax is High, and indirect taxes are accounting for a significant chunk of the cost of living. And that the services we get in return are poor at best.

I'm sure you would be the first to agree that Irish people don't complain enough when they get shoddy service in a restaurant. It's been a problem for years and we're only learning how to speak up.

But why can't we do the same with the country? Tax is my single biggest expense each year. It is for most people. That's before you even consider the additional taxes I pay by living day to day. Why can't I say that Ireland as a country offers poor value for money to tax payers? That is Rip-Off Ireland.

Tax evasion is the biggest rip-off in Ireland.

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Wrong Wrong Wrong. A man who evades tax to the tune of €5000 has exactly 10,000 times less impact on the economy than a minister who squanders €50 million.
Both force tax payers to put their hands into their pockets to make up for the loss.
The biggest Rip-Off in Ireland in a government with a skewed sence of priorities.

The biggest monopoly is the monopoly of the trade unions.

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Wrong Wrong Wrong. The biggest monopoly is the unavoidable one that we only have one government. They get to decide how much of our money to take in tax and they get to decide how to squander it.

Apart from sending nappies to the Minister or drinking tap water, no one has suggested anything positive. Why not set up a restaurant or import cement or open a pub?

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Some of is have started businesses, I can only run one at a time. And you're missing the point that excessive profits are not the problem.

daltonr - what I really cannot understand is that you have been harping on about how horrible Ireland is to live in compared to every other country in the World and yet you are still here.

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1. Because I'm not going to jump to the first country I like.
2. Because it takes time to disentangle yourself from a country.
3. Because if your attitude is that anyone who thinks Ireland could be improved
should get out and find somewhere better, then Ireland will never improve.

I think Ireland is a great place to live. I would much prefer to be employed and paying high prices than unemployed and getting things cheaply.

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I'd prefer to be employed and getting good value for money. But I guess that's just me.

-Rd

ClubMan said:

There is some great value and quality to be had in terms of fixed price lunch specials around Dublin. For example, I work up the road from Romano's on Capel Street where you can get a starter, main course (home made pasta made from organic flour and eggs or pizza made with organic flour) and tea/coffee for €9.95. There's a Vietnamese restaurant behind the Central Bank called Hosen which does a similar lunch (starter, main and tea/coffee) for €10.80. I have seen similarly priced lunch specials elsewhere around town but I can't vouch for the quality of many others right now.

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Rayhoon on Talbot St. (not much of a tourist destinantion though) does any starter, any pizza/pasta, and a coke/tea/coffee for €10.50 and I love the food (not sure about organic content C'Man!).