We have all been massively wronged and should protest

onq

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We have all been massively wronged and should protest

You know, I remember a case back in the 1980's or 1990's of a woman caught shoplifting a pair of shoes who was sent to prison for 4 years - she was a mother of four children IIRC.

Here we are in a society where an entire sector has been shut down, livelihoods destroyed, people mired in unpayable person debt - through the actions and inactions of the government, the financial regulator and the banks.

Not one person has been charged with any offense, although it is manifestly clear that a major and grievous wrong has been committed and that some people have profited hugely out of it.

Very few main players have been fired, although some have walked and some have fled because of it.

Massive provision is in the accounts of Anglo for the thefts of millions of Euros by these people.

And yet, here in good old repressed Ireland, not one person is marching in protest.

The Big Boys in Europe class us with the O'Med group otherwise known as the Piigs.

Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain.

Lovely, just bleedin' lovely.


The Greeks are laughing at us, having run up debts of €300 Billion they are getting bailed out - we are going to have to pay 800 million a year to help them - US!

This is a country that used the good offices if Goldman Sachs to hide a growing debt using the same financial instruments that got us all into this mess.

They got a sweet deal at low interest rates because they TOOK TO THE STREETS and have a prime minister who faced down Germany.


We're all just too Middle Class, to march although for how much longer remains to be seen.


We're all just too Middle Class, to march although for how much longer remains to be seen.

Many families I know are one major bill away from not being able to put food on the table.

And of course I know so many once-triving businesses - apart from architects - that are going under.

And of course, don't mention the suicides, because we wouldn't want to upset anyone now would we?

I think we need to protest about this - anyone up for a march or even a protest?

How does 1:00 pm next Saturday outside Government Buildings sound?

ONQ.
 
through the actions and inactions of the government, the financial regulator and the banks

and the people who borrowed the money.

Massive provision is in the accounts of Anglo for the thefts of millions of Euros by these people.

Theft? That's a strong accusation when no court case has yet been heard.

think we need to protest about this - anyone up for a march or even a protest?

I don't see what good could come of a protest.
 
I admire your stance and understand where you are coming from. I want people jailed and thrown out of their homes. That might sound harsh but I want to see sheriffs kicking in front doors and tossing people out. People should see a consequence to their actions and if that means their son can't go to Gonzaga I am fine with that. He can live with the parents in a 3 bed semi in Ballygobackwards that his father built. You can guess who I would have in my top 5. But I think "wronged" is the wrong word. I just want to see justice served by our courts and our leaders.

I would however ask you to consider a different stance. Firstly, government buildings will be closed on Saturday so I don't see the point. They never listen anyway and you'll only get a couple of thousand there at best.

How about starting with something that only takes 2 minutes. Why not post a list of email addresses for the TDs and senators. Then have a standard template outlining what "we the people" demand. And that is that those who acted illegally are brought before a court and jailed where necessary. Also that those who refuse to pay back the billions are thrown from their houses and jailed. I'll send it to the TDs in my area and to every minister. Thats' about 19 emails. If you get 10,000 people to do that it is a good start.
 
Oh no, let's not accuse anyone of anything.

Let's forget that government should be accountable.
Let's not voice our utter disgust at the mess we're in today.
Let's not spotlight our former banking whores recently taking holy orders.

Really?

I don't think so.

The same people who "advised" Joe Public he was under borrowed aren't lending.
In many cases they are actively driving people into bankruptcy by pursuing payments.
What happens when that occurs - familes broken up, homes repossesed, children alienated?
Will you think its okay to protest then perhaps, when its wayyy too late to influence events for the better?

Think again.

Think long and hard before whitewashing the wrongs that have been done to us.

ONQ.
 
I admire your stance and understand where you are coming from. I want people jailed and thrown out of their homes. That might sound harsh but I want to see sheriffs kicking in front doors and tossing people out. People should see a consequence to their actions and if that means their son can't go to Gonzaga I am fine with that. He can live with the parents in a 3 bed semi in Ballygobackwards that his father built. You can guess who I would have in my top 5. But I think "wronged" is the wrong word. I just want to see justice served by our courts and our leaders.

I would however ask you to consider a different stance. Firstly, government buildings will be closed on Saturday so I don't see the point. They never listen anyway and you'll only get a couple of thousand there at best.

How about starting with something that only takes 2 minutes. Why not post a list of email addresses for the TDs and senators. Then have a standard template outlining what "we the people" demand. And that is that those who acted illegally are brought before a court and jailed where necessary. Also that those who refuse to pay back the billions are thrown from their houses and jailed. I'll send it to the TDs in my area and to every minister. Thats' about 19 emails. If you get 10,000 people to do that it is a good start.


VOR,

I'm with you - I don't only give good advice, I know when to recognise it and take it.

However I have already posted the list :)

Its in the thread entitled Re: Draconian Measures in the Banks - 90 day foreclosure limit?

[broken link removed]

I'll post the whole page I think.

ONQ.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1024974
 
But what is protesting going to do? The Greeks don't protest, they riot and look at them. They are going be begging for money from the EU including us within the next two weeks. You make it sound like it is a good thing that they are getting bailed out. Its not!

It doesn't achieve anything apart from making you feel better for a hour or two.
 
We have all been massively wronged and should protest

List of Dáil Deputies in alphabetical order but see below for a cut and paste list of e-mail addresses, both from [broken link removed]

I have reproduced and relevant information below in this post.

There is the first list which related names to e-mails - ignore this.

Go to the second list at the bottom of that page of this post and highlight all of them.

Copy and paste that entire list of e-mail addresses into the first header line of your e-mail client and hit the "return" key.

A few seconds may elapse after which all 164 TD's noted below should appear on separate lines.

Write your message and hit "send", although perhaps VOR or someone else may suggest an appropriate text in this thread - what you send is your choice.

You may have to override a security protocal that prevents you sending more than 50 e-mails at once - just do that, it should default to the normal security protocol the next time.

It may be that we will achieve nothing, or that we will be misunderstood, or villified or perhaps even ridiculed by our peers.

But I believe that government should be held accountable and that we should voice our serious concerns about our country, our livelihoods and our childrens future.

Demanding show trials or turfing executive and non-executive directors, chairmen, and former regulators - never mind current and former taoiseagh onto the streets may be a pipe dream.

But we should let this government know the depth of feeling out there against the situation we find ourselves in and our current inability to pay back our debts through lack of gainful employment.

FWIW

ONQ.


From: [broken link removed]


1. Mr. Bertie Ahern [email protected]
2. Mr. Dermot Ahern [email protected]
3. Mr. Michael Ahern [email protected]
4. Mr. Noel Ahern [email protected]
5. Mr. Bernard Allen [email protected]
6. Mr. Chris Andrews [email protected]
7. Mr. Barry Andrews [email protected]
8. Mr. Seán Ardagh [email protected]
9. Mr. Bobby Aylward [email protected]
10. Mr. James Bannon [email protected]
11. Mr. Sean Barrett [email protected]
12. Mr. Joe Behan [email protected]
13. Mr. Niall Blaney [email protected]
14. Ms. Aíne Brady [email protected]
15. Mr. Cyprian Brady [email protected]
16. Mr. Johnny Brady [email protected]
17. Mr. Pat Breen [email protected]
18. Mr. Tommy Broughan [email protected]
19. Mr. John Browne [email protected]
20. Mr. Richard Bruton [email protected]
21. Mr. Ulick Burke [email protected]
22. Ms. Joan Burton [email protected]
23. Ms. Catherine Byrne [email protected]
24. Mr. Thomas Byrne [email protected]
25. Mr. Dara Calleary [email protected]
26. Mr. Pat Carey [email protected]
27. Mr. Joe Carey [email protected]
28. Ms. Deirdre Clune [email protected]
29. Mr. Niall Collins [email protected]
30. Ms. Margaret Conlon [email protected]
31. Mr. Paul Connaughton [email protected]
32. Mr. Sean Connick [email protected]
33. Mr. Noel J Coonan [email protected]
34. Mr. Joe Costello [email protected]
35. Ms. Mary Coughlan [email protected]
36. Mr. Simon Coveney [email protected]
37. Mr. Brian Cowen [email protected]
38. Mr. Seymour Crawford [email protected]
39. Mr. Michael Creed [email protected]
40. Mr. John Cregan [email protected]
41. Ms. Lucinda Creighton [email protected]
42. Mr. Ciaran Cuffe [email protected]
43. Mr. Martin Cullen [email protected]
44. Mr. John Curran [email protected]
45. Mr. Michael W. D'Arcy [email protected]
46. Mr. John Deasy [email protected]
47. Mr. Jimmy Deenihan [email protected]
48. Mr. Noel Dempsey [email protected]
49. Mr. Jimmy Devins [email protected]
50. Mr. Timmy Dooley [email protected]
51. Mr. Andrew Doyle [email protected]
52. Mr. Bernard Durkan [email protected]
53. Mr. Damien English [email protected]
54. Ms. Olwyn Enright [email protected]
55. Mr. Frank Fahey [email protected]
56. Mr. Frank Feighan [email protected]
57. Mr. Martin Ferris [email protected]
58. Mr. Michael Finneran [email protected]
59. Mr. Michael Fitzpatrick [email protected]
60. Mr. Charles Flanagan [email protected]
61. Mr. Terence Flanagan [email protected]
62. Mr. Sean Fleming [email protected]
63. Ms. Beverley Flynn [email protected]
64. Mr. Eamon Gilmore [email protected]
65. Mr. Paul Nicholas Gogarty [email protected]
66. Mr. John Gormley [email protected]
67. Mr. Noel Grealish [email protected]
68. Ms. Mary Hanafin [email protected]
69. Ms. Mary Harney [email protected]
70. Mr. Sean Haughey [email protected]
71. Mr. Brian Hayes [email protected]
72. Mr. Tom Hayes [email protected]
73. Mr. Jackie Healy-Rae [email protected]
74. Mr. Michael D. Higgins [email protected]
75. Ms. Máire Hoctor [email protected]
76. Mr. Phil Hogan [email protected]
77. Mr. Brendan Howlin [email protected]
78. Mr. Paul Kehoe [email protected]
79. Mr. Billy Kelleher [email protected]
80. Mr. Peter Kelly [email protected]
81. Mr. Brendan Kenneally [email protected]
82. Mr. Michael Kennedy [email protected]
83. Mr. Enda Kenny [email protected]
84. Mr. Tony Killeen [email protected]
85. Mr. Séamus Kirk [email protected]
86. Mr. Michael P. Kitt [email protected]
87. Mr. Tom Kitt [email protected]
88. Mr. Brian Joseph Lenihan [broken link removed]89. Mr. Conor Lenihan [email protected]
90. Mr. Michael Lowry [email protected]
91. Ms. Kathleen Lynch [email protected]
92. Mr. Ciarán Lynch [email protected]
93. Dr. Martin Mansergh [email protected]
94. Mr. Micheál Martin [email protected]
95. Mr. Pádraic McCormack [email protected]
96. Dr. James McDaid [email protected]
97. Mr. Thomas McEllistrim [email protected]
98. Mr. Shane McEntee [email protected]
99. Mr. Dinny McGinley [email protected]
100. Mr. Mattie McGrath [email protected]
101. Mr. Michael McGrath [email protected]
102. Mr. Finian McGrath [email protected]
103. Mr. John McGuinness [email protected]
104. Mr. Joe McHugh [email protected]
105. Ms. Liz McManus [email protected]
106. Ms. Olivia Mitchell [email protected]
107. Mr. John Anthony Moloney [email protected]
108. Mr. Arthur Morgan [email protected]
109. Mr. Michael Moynihan [email protected]
110. Mr. Michael Mulcahy [email protected]
111. Mr. Denis Naughten [email protected]
112. Mr. Dan Neville [email protected]
113. Mr. M. J. Nolan [email protected]
114. Mr. Michael Noonan [email protected]
115. Mr. Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin [email protected]
116. Mr. Éamon Ó Cuív [email protected]
117. Mr. Seán Ó Fearghaíl [email protected]
118. Mr. Aengus Ó Snodaigh [email protected]
119. Mr. Darragh O'Brien [email protected]
120. Mr. Charlie O'Connor [email protected]
121. Mr. Willie O'Dea [email protected]
122. Mr. Kieran O'Donnell [email protected]
123. Mr. John O'Donoghue [email protected]
124. Mr. Fergus O'Dowd [email protected]
125. Mr. Noel O'Flynn [email protected]
126. Dr. Rory O'Hanlon [email protected]
127. Mr. Batt O'Keeffe [email protected]
128. Mr. Jim O'Keeffe [email protected]
129. Mr. Edward O'Keeffe [email protected]
130. Mr. John O'Mahony [email protected]
131. Ms. Mary O'Rourke [email protected]
132. Mr. Brian O'Shea [email protected]
133. Mr. Christy O'Sullivan [email protected]
134. Ms. Jan O'Sullivan [email protected]
135. Ms. Maureen O’Sullivan [email protected]
136. Mr. Willie Penrose [email protected]
137. Mr. John Perry [email protected]
138. Mr. Seán Power [email protected]
139. Mr. Peter Power [email protected]
140. Mr. Ruairí Quinn [email protected]
141. Mr. Pat Rabbitte [email protected]
142. Dr. James Reilly [email protected]
143. Mr. Michael Ring [email protected]
144. Mr. Dick Roche [email protected]
145. Mr. Eamon Ryan [email protected]
146. Mr. Trevor Sargent [email protected]
147. Mr. Eamon Scanlon [email protected]
148. Mr. Alan Shatter [email protected]
149. Mr. Tom Sheahan [email protected]
150. Mr. P. J. Sheehan [email protected]
151. Mr. Sean Sherlock [email protected]
152. Ms. Róisín Shortall [email protected]
153. Mr. Brendan Smith [email protected]
154. Mr. Emmet Stagg [email protected]
155. Mr. David Stanton [email protected]
156. Mr. Billy Godfrey Timmins [email protected]
157. Mr. Noel Treacy [email protected]
158. Ms. Joanna Tuffy [email protected]
159. Dr. Mary Upton [email protected]
160. Mr. Leo Varadkar [email protected]
161. Mr. Jack Wall [email protected]
162. Ms. Mary Wallace [email protected]
163. Ms. Mary Alexandra White [email protected]
164. Dr. Michael J. Woods [email protected]
List of Email addresses for TD’s of the 30th Dáil as a group:​
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],​
 
Whilst I agree with a lot said above, I do have to point out that in my opinion a lot of people took on debt that they should not have.
For example, I didnt max my mortage. I drive a 10 year old car when many of the (2) cars in the driveways were brand new. I don't have a 48" plasma - i'm still stuck in cathod ray tube land!People lived on credit for too long.
Yes, there has been disastrous behaviour from our "betters" but at the same time, people have to take a certain amount of personal blame for debt also.
 
elephantfresh - I agree with your post, but I have said on here before - many people thought that because the banks were willing to give them money, that that was a nod that it was OK for them to borrow at that level. The general public wouldnt be financial experts, they would assume the people in the bank are.

Sure, personal responsibility is so important, and I, like you, drive a 10 year old car, have a small mortgage, a small tv, and have never lived on credit. But I have friends and family who made bad financial decisions, not because they were being greedy, but because the bank told them it was ok to borrow this amount - and they felt that if the bank says its ok, it must be ok.

The banks were actually phoning people and offering them loans over the phone - people were getting letters saying 'you have been pre approved for a loan of $$$ or a credit card with limit of $$$' etc - not everyone is savvy enough to make the right decisions when they are being encouraged like mad by their bank to take risks.
 
The banks are going to do whatever they can to make the most money they can. The issue IMO is the lack in independance from political influence regarding the Financial Regulator and also the lack of investigation & enforcement by the Financial Regulator.

If the FR was truely independent of the government, then all the tax-breaks for builders wouldn't have meant diddly squat if the builder couldn't put up the necessary funds. Limiting the banks to only provide mortgages based on the old system (2.5 + 1.5) of salary would have kept house prices in check. Prohibiting 100% mortgages and cold-calling customers advising of loans would have avoided unecessary consumer debt.

IMO the FR was influenced by government policy of the day rather then putting the banking customer's interest at the forefront - as what is being advocated by the new FR re Quinn Insurance. Therefore the group ultimatly responsibility IMO lies with Bertie Ahern, with Brian Cowen and Charlie mcCreevy just beneath as Taoiseach and ministers for Finance.
 
OMG and what do you plan to do?
a mass whinging session? and when the elections come, everyone's going to vote FF anyway
 
Firstly, and in fairness, there have been other protests on this already, Joe Higgins outside Anglo springs to mind

Secondly, what will the protest actually achieve?. Standing outside the Dail when there is no one in it is a bit Father Tedish, "down with that sort of thing" . What is the goal of your protest?

I'm not in disagreement with the main thrust of your arguement, although I do believe in many cases, people got into difficulty through their own stupidy and greed, regardless of what the banks did and if the current crisis hadn't happened, they would have got into difficulty in the future when interest rates inevitably rose. I have sympathy for a lot of people in difficulties, but not all of them.

Interestingly I'm researching my family history at the minute and one saga is in 1904 where local farmers physically fought the police to prevent landord evictions on a farm. They had a goal, (no evictions by a British Landlord) and eventually they won, albeit at the price of some of my ancestors doing time in prison. I'm not condoning or recomending violence, what I am saying is don't protest for the sake of it or because it makes you feel better, demand something instead. For example, a protest demanding that no bank evictions/seizing of property for 3/4 years for mortgage holders in arrears where the mortgage holder has lost his/her job would be far more benificial.
 
The best protest is to vote out ALL the Government TDs at the next election. Just think of the message it would send if not even one retained his/her seat. If you must vote for a particular party (and I cant understand why you would in the current climate), then vote for one of the candidates who isnt a sitting TD.
 
There have been protests. There are at least three that I know of for Nama.
Unfortunately, they've haven't had such a great uptake or have been hijacked by other interests (such as political parties).

There's another protest on 24 April about calling for a general election
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=29545

All we need is more people to get that critical mass.
 
We are a country of protest - we would win a gold medal in the blame world games.

What potests have there been aganist Alan Greenspan?

The Irish are so inward looking. People were aware of the loans given by banks and house prices.

The Irish were stupidified by house prices for years.
 
I was listening to Eamonn Keane earlier and he had a guest on (I didn't catch her name) and she was saying that more people had taken to the streets to protest about fox hunting than had about Nama. Fox hunting is very specific thing and most people have fairly clear views about it - this makes it easier to protest about. The problems in this country are widespread and I would only be in favour of a protest that had a clear agenda and message rather than a general protest where people are just saying they are not happy with the state of the country.
 
you are right all the boards and senior man managment of the banks should have been fired at the very least .

ALL Aib's RISK commitee is still there except sheehy

Makes me laugh and cry
 
I thought George Lee was standing as a protest and look what he did, got himself a free car parking space for life.

Ireland is a place where the motto is pulling strokes it always was and always will be. I'll be back here after the next election saying I told you so.

We deserve everything we get for the people we elect and I for one will not help an electorate that dug its own grave.

noah
 
The best protest is to vote out ALL the Government TDs at the next election. Just think of the message it would send if not even one retained his/her seat. If you must vote for a particular party (and I cant understand why you would in the current climate), then vote for one of the candidates who isnt a sitting TD.

Surely the time is ripe for a new political party? Not a PD or Libertas effort but a new party with new people.
 
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