Current public sentiment towards the housing market?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Is everyone still on holidays? I would have thought that article would have stirred up the bears!!
Has anyone a link to the report itself, would love to see how the abrubt downturn and strongest warnings yet about the overdependence of the economy on construction tallies with
continued strong performance of the economy saying it is one of the best worldwide.
Seems to be like saying that we have the fastest growning wheat crop in the world except that is is not wheat but dandelions...
 
bearishbull said:
Hard to fathom whats going on ,i've heard many anecdotal reports of empty apartments around dublin especially in suburbs.
Click to expand...

My guess is that people purchase them as an investment and either do not or cannot rent them. For now they are happy to take the hit because of the capital appreciation. Certainly I am aware of at least one multiple property owner who considers letting his houses out to tenants to be "far too much bother".
 
StoppedClock said:
Is everyone still on holidays? I would have thought that article would have stirred up the bears!!
Click to expand...

We probably feel like we're repeating ourselves ad nauseum. I doubt any of the bulls will pay this report much attention. None of the previous warnings have had any effect - ECB, ESRI, CB and of course, the IMF.

They will say that "dem der economists" have been warning this for years but have yet to rumble that the Irish have discovered a perpetual money making machine called the "property boom". Where inflation is good and a lifetime of debt is a small price to pay for a house in Kinnegad.

If a safety inspector repeatedly warns that a mineshaft isn't safe, the workers would take little solace in the fact that "he's been warning that for years and the mine hasn't caved in yet".
 
room305 said:
My guess is that people purchase them as an investment and either do not or cannot rent them. For now they are happy to take the hit because of the capital appreciation. Certainly I am aware of at least one multiple property owner who considers letting his houses out to tenants to be "far too much bother".
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree and know many such investors. In fairness in their position I would do the same, these were obviously bought purely for speculation so why complicate the buy low, sell high plan.

What should be worrying for these people is that this is so widespread... 275,000? obviously not...
but even if a 1/10 of these vacant properties are CBATL (Couldn't be arsed to let) that is still 25K+ units which are explicitly being held to be quickly sold at thew first sign of weakening...
 
room305 said:
If a safety inspector repeatedly warns that a mineshaft isn't safe, the workers would take little solace in the fact that "he's been warning that for years and the mine hasn't caved in yet".
Click to expand...

And think of all the coal the guys who refused to work there missed out on! Ejits!...
 
whizzbang said:
And think of all the coal the guys who refused to work there missed out on! Ejits!...
Click to expand...

The canary is dying lads. The gold mine will explode if you don't get out quick. The greedy fools will risk everything for a few nuggets. Not sure if there'll be enough room on the elevator to the surface though.
 
room305 said:
My guess is that people purchase them as an investment and either do not or cannot rent them. For now they are happy to take the hit because of the capital appreciation. Certainly I am aware of at least one multiple property owner who considers letting his houses out to tenants to be "far too much bother".
Click to expand...

In Sandymount, the builder (think it was McInerney but not sure) held on to the apartments. He is advertising them for rent but they stood empty for at least a year. Why he's deciding to rent now..I don't know.

In Ringsend, a small builder built an apartment block off South Lotts Road and also kept them. These are now rented. I'm told that Liam Carroll aka Danninger, Fabrizia, Zoey, also frequently holds on to a block for himself. I don't know how true this is.

Another reason lots of apartments stand empty is that while owner/occupiers want to get in as quickly as possible, investors like to hold off on drawing down a mortgage for as long as possible.

Perhaps builders also think the housing boom is over or at least, the building boom. If buyers begin to hold off buying in case the market drops, they'll still need somewhere to live, so perhaps the major builders are adding another string to their bow and becoming landlords? My guess is that its probably something to do with tax.
 
Bear in mind though that the rental yield for somone who built the place from stratch (with all the tax benefits) is much much higher than your average joe public who buys off plans in the marketing suite.

If the builder (or his mate) also runs the apartment complex management company, he stands to trouser 2 or 3 grand from each unit every single year.

So in this sense, I'd say there's still relatively good yield out there for builders cum landlords.
 
liteweight said:
My guess is that its probably something to do with tax.
Click to expand...

Another factor for developers is the possibility of further development in an area. Many developers hold on to properties in a recent development - thereby gaining a seat on the resident's association, which is useful should the residents be considering objecting to any further plans the developer may have.

However, what I think most likely is that they are hanging on to properties for capital appreciation purposes. They'll sell the bulk of the properties but they seem to want to always hang onto a few to sell at an inflated price a year or two later. In many respects it doesn't make sense (surely the return on investment would be higher if they sold and ploughed the money into further development) but I think it is happening all the same. Perhaps the simply like to be able to tell people "Sure, I sold three of the houses a year later and they'd gone up €20k each!"

Also (and this is only something that has just occured to me) people buying houses in a new development often take assurance from a developer holding onto property in an area. It implies they are getting a bargain (i.e. the developer sees enormous capital appreciation potential) and that the houses are built to a high standard.
 
room305 said:
Another factor for developers is the possibility of further development in an area. Many developers hold on to properties in a recent development - thereby gaining a seat on the resident's association, which is useful should the residents be considering objecting to any further plans the developer may have.
Click to expand...

True, Danninger are applying to put more floors on top of one of their recent developments (complex already complete) and I doubt the residents will be happy.

room305 said:
However, what I think most likely is that they are hanging on to properties for capital appreciation purposes. They'll sell the bulk of the properties but they seem to want to always hang onto a few to sell at an inflated price a year or two later. In many respects it doesn't make sense (surely the return on investment would be higher if they sold and ploughed the money into further development) but I think it is happening all the same. Perhaps the simply like to be able to tell people "Sure, I sold three of the houses a year later and they'd gone up €20k each!"
Click to expand...

I think your ordinary Joe Soap investor is more likely to have this conversations. Builders must surely talk in millions!!

room305 said:
Also (and this is only something that has just occured to me) people buying houses in a new development often take assurance from a developer holding onto property in an area. It implies they are getting a bargain (i.e. the developer sees enormous capital appreciation potential) and that the houses are built to a high standard.
Click to expand...

Very, very true!! I've overheard this type of conversation myself.
 
liteweight said:
True, Danninger are applying to put more floors on top of one of their recent developments (complex already complete) and I doubt the residents will be happy.
Click to expand...
What happens if you've already signed on the dotted line for a "penthouse"?!
 
CelloPoint said:
What happens if you've already signed on the dotted line for a "penthouse"?!
Click to expand...
Funny you should mention that...they never advertised top floor apartments as penthouses although if I'd bought on the top floor, I would have assumed that there'd be no one above me!

Perhaps they didn't sell the top two floors at all because they knew they had other plans. In doing some research, I've found Danninger to be good in that they don't put apartment blocks up for sale until work is near completion. That means that, although you have builders on site, the grounds, public areas etc. are finished pretty nicely before you move in. For the builder, it means that he's selling at today's rate, rather than two years ago off plans.
 
room305 said:
Another factor for developers is the possibility of further development in an area. Many developers hold on to properties in a recent development - thereby gaining a seat on the resident's association, which is useful should the residents be considering objecting to any further plans the developer may have.
Click to expand...
No, the builder controls the income stream from the property management company as long as the last unit remains ' unsold' . This is a uniquely Irish problem may I add. :(

Once the last unit is 'sold' (if ever) the residents may organise the property management themselves, but not till then.
 
2Pack said:
No, the builder controls the income stream from the property management company as long as the last unit remains ' unsold' . This is a uniquely Irish problem may I add. :(

Once the last unit is 'sold' (if ever) the residents may organise the property management themselves, but not till then.
Click to expand...

I dont think this is entirely true. In my apt complex the builder still ownes 6 of the units and we are in the process of removing him from the board of directors as he didnt turn up to the AGM. They are the rules of our management company, if you dont turn up to get voted back in you are removed as a director unless no one objects to you staying on. We all objected to him staying on so he is going to be removed.

He also hasnt paid the management fee for the past 18months on those 6 units and we have a solicitor after him for the money plus interest. At our last committee meeting he had replied saying the money would be sent on immediately.

I dont think he cares that he is going to be removed as a director.
 
homeowner said:
I dont think this is entirely true. In my apt complex the builder still ownes 6 of the units and we are in the process of removing him from the board of directors as he didnt turn up to the AGM. They are the rules of our management company, if you dont turn up to get voted back in you are removed as a director unless no one objects to you staying on. We all objected to him staying on so he is going to be removed.

He also hasnt paid the management fee for the past 18months on those 6 units and we have a solicitor after him for the money plus interest. At our last committee meeting he had replied saying the money would be sent on immediately.

I dont think he cares that he is going to be removed as a director.
Click to expand...

Would be very interesting to see how that one pans out. I'd say it's not so simple (nor cheap) to eject a director who owns 6 units.

These are the very reasons I would hate to live in an apartment complex/managed estate.
 
Irish Banks and Savings

Would I be correct in assuming that there is a maximum to the amount of money that a bank would be obliged to return to its customers from their deposit/savings accounts in the case of a banking crisis?

Also is there a prospect of such a collapse happening in the Irish market given the fact that even though there has been a lot of bad news from the UK in the past week, there does not seem to be too much concern all around.

Finally, would it be prudent at this stage to open a couple of additional accounts and spread one's savings?
 
CelloPoint said:
Would be very interesting to see how that one pans out. I'd say it's not so simple (nor cheap) to eject a director who owns 6 units.

These are the very reasons I would hate to live in an apartment complex/managed estate.
Click to expand...

From what the management company tell us we have to file a director's form (?) with CRO and he wont be listed on the next one we file. We have appointed two more people in place of him and his partner. He cant object, we have a majority and the complex is finished so he has no legal right to be on the board. No one voted him in and he didnt turn up to the AGM. The rules are the same for any Ltd company.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top