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sueellen
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Some other posts
extopia
Frequent poster
Cost of blocklayer?
I am building an extension in a rural area. Have been talking to a blocklayer who wants one euro per block (labour only - I supply the blocks and other materials). The extension is fairly large, though I haven't worked out the number of blocks yet (and neither has he!). Does this price sound right?
legend99
For starters, like everything else you need to get more than one quote surely....
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: Quotes
Thanks Legend. I agree completely of course. However blocklayers are very difficult to find in the area I am building in and it's hard enough to even get one quote! But I'm still trying.
JP
Unregistered User
Blocklayer
I have a quote from blocklayer in south Wexford of €1.33 per block inc VAT. Needless to say i will be trying to negocite part of the deal for cash in hand at a cheaper price but this particular blocklayer is the best in the area so charges a bit more which I am willing to pay for.
cushtie
Registered User
Re: Cost of blocklayer?
extopia,
I asked my friend who is a block layer what the going rate is. He said 80 cent a block cash in hand or approx €1 if going through the books.
thats down in Kerry by the way but I would imagine it should be fairly standard.
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: Cost of blocklayer?
Thanks, people, seems the quote I was given is in the general area, although it adds up over a couple of thousand blocks!
MOB
Frequent poster
"cash in hand"
I don't want to do a "holier than thou" type of post, but one contributors mentioned that
"Needless to say i will be trying to negocite part of the deal for cash in hand at a cheaper price "
and a second referred to there being a standard "cash" price and a standard documented price.
Bear in mind the following:
1. You pay tax on all your earnings. Why should tradesmen (or for that matter solicitors, or accountants doctors or any other self employed people) be able to get away without doing so?
2. If something goes wrong with a job and (God forbid) you have to sue, the courts will not entertain you because your contractual arrangement with the builder/blocklayer/tradesman is tainted by fraud on the Revenue;
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: "cash in hand"
MOB
Frequent poster
Cash in hand
Judges (mostly) exhibit common sense. If you pay cash for a job and don't have a proper invoice\statement, then you know that the money is not being declared, and the judge knows that you know. In these circumstances, your contract with the tradesman is tainted by fraud (i.e. a fraud on the taxman).
If you go to court to enforce the terms of the contract (i.e. to make the builder repair shoddy work) and if the revenue fraud comes to the attention of the court, your case will be thrown out. So if the job is badly done, tough.
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: Cash in hand
I take your point, but I maintain it would be hard for the court to prove collusion on the part of the purchaser. The fact remains that the vendor's tax-evasion is the vendor's problem, not the purchaser's. No purchaser can be sure of a vendor's tax compliance, invoice or no invoice. Hell, even tax clearance certificates can be misleading.
The invoice issue is interesting, though. Would I be breaking the law by not demanding one?
rainyday
Registered User
Re: Cash in hand
Nice to see that I'm not the first one to jump in on the cash-in-hand issue - Thanks MOB.
Lets forget about invoices & judges & tax-clearance certs for a moment and talk about morals & ethics. It is absolutely clear from the posts above that both the blocklayers and the potential clients are in no doubt that tax evasion is at the heart of the discounted price quoted by the blocklayer for cash-in-hand.
By participating in the 'game', the clients are not only encouraging but are actively facilitating tax evasion. No doubt these are the same people who will tut-tut when Lawlor/Haughey/Burke et al comes on the news, and will moan about AIB facilitating bogus non-resident accounts. But when it comes to saving a few quid on a building job, they jump right in and play the tax evasion game as enthusiastically as Lawlor/Haughey/Burke/AIB et al. There is no ethical difference here.
As long as we continue to have this hypcritical attitude to tax evasion in Ireland, we will continue to have underfunded hospitals/schools/Gardai etc etc etc. Those who chose to play this tax evasion game lose all their rights to moan about Govt unless/until they repay their debt to the state.
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: Cash in hand
Hey now, I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not condoning the practice by any means. To be quite honest, I'd rather pay the extra few quid and have a receipt in case anything went wrong with the job.
MOB
Frequent poster
cash jobs
"The invoice issue is interesting, though. Would I be breaking the law by not demanding one? "
Nope; but if you pay by cash and get no receipt or invoice, you will have a hard time persuading a judge (if the need ever arises) that you weren't aware of revenue fraud.
Best to pay by cheque.
extopia
Frequent poster
Cost of blocklayer?
I am building an extension in a rural area. Have been talking to a blocklayer who wants one euro per block (labour only - I supply the blocks and other materials). The extension is fairly large, though I haven't worked out the number of blocks yet (and neither has he!). Does this price sound right?
legend99
For starters, like everything else you need to get more than one quote surely....
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: Quotes
Thanks Legend. I agree completely of course. However blocklayers are very difficult to find in the area I am building in and it's hard enough to even get one quote! But I'm still trying.
JP
Unregistered User
Blocklayer
I have a quote from blocklayer in south Wexford of €1.33 per block inc VAT. Needless to say i will be trying to negocite part of the deal for cash in hand at a cheaper price but this particular blocklayer is the best in the area so charges a bit more which I am willing to pay for.
cushtie
Registered User
Re: Cost of blocklayer?
extopia,
I asked my friend who is a block layer what the going rate is. He said 80 cent a block cash in hand or approx €1 if going through the books.
thats down in Kerry by the way but I would imagine it should be fairly standard.
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: Cost of blocklayer?
Thanks, people, seems the quote I was given is in the general area, although it adds up over a couple of thousand blocks!
MOB
Frequent poster
"cash in hand"
I don't want to do a "holier than thou" type of post, but one contributors mentioned that
"Needless to say i will be trying to negocite part of the deal for cash in hand at a cheaper price "
and a second referred to there being a standard "cash" price and a standard documented price.
Bear in mind the following:
1. You pay tax on all your earnings. Why should tradesmen (or for that matter solicitors, or accountants doctors or any other self employed people) be able to get away without doing so?
2. If something goes wrong with a job and (God forbid) you have to sue, the courts will not entertain you because your contractual arrangement with the builder/blocklayer/tradesman is tainted by fraud on the Revenue;
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: "cash in hand"
Fair enough, they shouldn't.
Is that really the case? Surely it's up to the tradesman/contractor to ensure his own compliance, and not his or her customers?
MOB
Frequent poster
Cash in hand
Judges (mostly) exhibit common sense. If you pay cash for a job and don't have a proper invoice\statement, then you know that the money is not being declared, and the judge knows that you know. In these circumstances, your contract with the tradesman is tainted by fraud (i.e. a fraud on the taxman).
If you go to court to enforce the terms of the contract (i.e. to make the builder repair shoddy work) and if the revenue fraud comes to the attention of the court, your case will be thrown out. So if the job is badly done, tough.
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: Cash in hand
I take your point, but I maintain it would be hard for the court to prove collusion on the part of the purchaser. The fact remains that the vendor's tax-evasion is the vendor's problem, not the purchaser's. No purchaser can be sure of a vendor's tax compliance, invoice or no invoice. Hell, even tax clearance certificates can be misleading.
The invoice issue is interesting, though. Would I be breaking the law by not demanding one?
rainyday
Registered User
Re: Cash in hand
Nice to see that I'm not the first one to jump in on the cash-in-hand issue - Thanks MOB.
Lets forget about invoices & judges & tax-clearance certs for a moment and talk about morals & ethics. It is absolutely clear from the posts above that both the blocklayers and the potential clients are in no doubt that tax evasion is at the heart of the discounted price quoted by the blocklayer for cash-in-hand.
By participating in the 'game', the clients are not only encouraging but are actively facilitating tax evasion. No doubt these are the same people who will tut-tut when Lawlor/Haughey/Burke et al comes on the news, and will moan about AIB facilitating bogus non-resident accounts. But when it comes to saving a few quid on a building job, they jump right in and play the tax evasion game as enthusiastically as Lawlor/Haughey/Burke/AIB et al. There is no ethical difference here.
As long as we continue to have this hypcritical attitude to tax evasion in Ireland, we will continue to have underfunded hospitals/schools/Gardai etc etc etc. Those who chose to play this tax evasion game lose all their rights to moan about Govt unless/until they repay their debt to the state.
extopia
Frequent poster
Re: Cash in hand
Hey now, I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not condoning the practice by any means. To be quite honest, I'd rather pay the extra few quid and have a receipt in case anything went wrong with the job.
MOB
Frequent poster
cash jobs
"The invoice issue is interesting, though. Would I be breaking the law by not demanding one? "
Nope; but if you pay by cash and get no receipt or invoice, you will have a hard time persuading a judge (if the need ever arises) that you weren't aware of revenue fraud.
Best to pay by cheque.